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DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

37signals.com

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Re: DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

#81

Post by pibefision »

ichverstehe wrote: post #20
pibefision wrote: post #14

I'm in Buenos Aires. The cost of living here it's 1/6 compared to San Francisco. And we have a lot of talent, cheap bandwidth and resources (apple Computers, big linux community, etc). Also, real state its growing fast. If you are planing to visit BA, msg me! :)

I've been to Argentina and I'm deeply in love with Buenos Aires – but heard that it's getting rather expensive living there fulltime. How is the job situation and such, for foreigners?

You can rent an appartment for U$S 300/month in a very accesible and centric place. You don't need a car here. There is plenty of work on IT, but we are talking about startupping here, so yo have everything. This country does not request visa for work or tourist, so you will not have any problem. Mail me pablocorral at gmail.

Re: DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

#82

Post by serhei »

sabat wrote: post #50
tptacek wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. Why don't you ask FeedBurner?

I think that -- by pointing out that there has been only one successful startup in Chicago (37Signals does not count; it's not really a startup, just a small business) -- that you just underscored the argument for the Bay Area.

You could argue both ways about 37signals, since if you consider Rails as one of their products, they are becoming pretty big through that. Considering the arguments made in Be Good, one can take the point of view of a startup being a startup not because it's chasing huge amounts of money or huge corporate growth, but because it's trying to make a difference in the world. 37signals certainly does that, firstly through Rails and also by providing an interesting reference point for how to design software and run a software company.

Re: DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

#83

Post by jrockway »

sabat wrote: post #51
jrockway wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Winter in Chicago isn't that bad. Do you think "wow, this is great weather" every day during the winter? No. But the spring, summer, and fall is very enjoyable. The problem with Chicago is that there are no other hackers around (all the tech people work for banks, and end up being as interesting as you'd imagine), and there are no 24-hour coffee shops, at least not near me. Chicago is a good place to be if you want t…

"Winter in Chicago isn't that bad." In the words of 37signals -- and Dr. Phil -- get real. Winter is hell in Chicago, summer is a pressure cooker, and fall and spring are tolerable for a few days. "Isn't that bad" is relative. Weather in the Bay Area is amazingly good. One of three mediterranean climates in the world. There is no comparison.

> In the words of 37signals -- and Dr. Phil -- get real. Winter is hell in Chicago, summer is a pressure cooker, and fall and spring are tolerable for a few days.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I disagree. It's just the weather; if that's the defining feature of your life, try to do something more interesting :)

Re: DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

#84

Post by tx »

geebee wrote: post #8

San Francisco is an interesting place. I live in SF, and I know a lot of programmers (and other tech workers) who live in SF, but I doubt that more than a third of them actually work in SF proper. Most of us engage in long and soul destroying drives to sterile office buildings in the midst of pedestrian-unfriendly parking lots on the peninsula and in the south bay. And we pay a lot for the privilege. I think that oth…

I can't believe you put Portland and Austin in the same sentence. Nothing wrong with Portland, but Austin is simply in another league: I don't believe there is another place in US with such combination of technology, nightlife and dating scenes. I do feel sorry for all guys in their 20s living in Bay Area.

Re: DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

#85

Post by tptacek »

menloparkbum wrote: post #48
tptacek wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I modded you up, but: * Compared to Chicago, Seattle, Portland, Atlanta, or Boston, San Francisco is filthy, both in a "civic pride and basic hygiene" sense, and in a "methadone clinics spewing out mentally ill homeless people contributing to a desperate humanitarian crisis" sense. * What areas are walkably friendly got that way by gentrifying and bleaching out the culture and neighborhoods from the city. Live in San…

* Compared to Chicago, Seattle, Portland, Atlanta, or Boston, San Francisco is filthy, both in a "civic pride and basic hygiene" sense, and in a "methadone clinics spewing out mentally ill homeless people contributing to a desperate humanitarian crisis" sense. - I agree with that, I guess. SF is pretty psychotic. * What areas are walkably friendly got that way by gentrifying and bleaching out the culture and neighbor…

* I lived in Noe Valley for a couple years and never once even heard of a block party. "The SOMA block party"? Does that go by another name I'd know it by better, like, say, the Folsom Street Fair? That's hardly a "neighborhood" event, but then, SOMA isn't a neighborhood, and hasn't been since it was debrided by "live-work art spaces" (a.k.a. luxury condos).

* JWZ is certainly not a good trendspotter, but you're providing a parody of his experience. He's not complaining that nobody cares about VNV Nation; he's complaining that he can't get permits to host 18+ shows (why do you care? Because lots of touring acts won't book 21+ shows), and chronicling the demise of one music venue after another.

* You are getting a fantastic deal on office space; you're paying approximately what we're paying for finished office space in the Loop (we have a smaller space; our company is split evenly between Chicago and Manhattan).

Re: DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

#86

Post by SwellJoe »

tx wrote: post #84
geebee wrote: post #8

San Francisco is an interesting place. I live in SF, and I know a lot of programmers (and other tech workers) who live in SF, but I doubt that more than a third of them actually work in SF proper. Most of us engage in long and soul destroying drives to sterile office buildings in the midst of pedestrian-unfriendly parking lots on the peninsula and in the south bay. And we pay a lot for the privilege. I think that oth…

I can't believe you put Portland and Austin in the same sentence. Nothing wrong with Portland, but Austin is simply in another league: I don't believe there is another place in US with such combination of technology, nightlife and dating scenes. I do feel sorry for all guys in their 20s living in Bay Area.

I've lived and started a business in both Austin and Silicon Valley. If you're starting a tech business the valley is a lot better. I miss the weather and the live music scene in Austin, but the tech startup climate is orders of magnitude better in the valley. I'll go back to Austin when I've built the business that I want to build. Until then, I'm staying where the ground is most fertile.

Re: DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

#87

Post by philippp »

jlc wrote: post #72
9oliYQjP wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bare with me as I really dislike suburbia:-) Suburbs (of which I would exclude most college towns I am aware of -- that's not too many) are hell holes. They are not good for raising children unless you think spending an hour or two per day of quality time while feverishly preparing/ordering dinner and/or getting them ready for bed is quality time. Most suburbanites waste upwards of 3 hours per day commuting to and fr…

I used to agree with a lot of what you say. Then I had kids ;-) Actually, I still don't disagree entirely, but you did leave out one very important consideration: schools. In many American urban centers the schools are poor, and housing in urban school districts that are good is prohibitively expensive. So you start looking at suburbs, and the commute is a trade-off you make for the better schools. Oh, and I wish we…

I'm not planning to have kids in the near future, but sincerely hope that this trend shifts (as more people move out of the suburbs and into cities) when the time comes.

I walked to school as a kid, and could walk/bike to my friends' houses until I was 12. Then we moved to the suburbs, and visiting friends had to be worked into my busy parents' schedule -- hence, life got less social.

Re: DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

#88

Post by andreyf »

This seems a direct contradiction to everything PG advocates ... no funding (not even seed funding). No VC's. No IPO. No buyout. Just doing what you love, without a boss, and getting paid well for it. Claiming a higher probability of happiness than the "funding" route.

And yet, PG is eerily silent... does YC cater to people following the 37sig model? If one decides to stay a private company, how do investors ever make back money?

Re: DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

#89

Post by pg »

andreyf wrote: post #88

This seems a direct contradiction to everything PG advocates ... no funding (not even seed funding). No VC's. No IPO. No buyout. Just doing what you love, without a boss, and getting paid well for it. Claiming a higher probability of happiness than the "funding" route. And yet, PG is eerily silent... does YC cater to people following the 37sig model? If one decides to stay a private company, how do investors ever mak…

I've just been busy with other stuff today and I haven't read it. But the answer to your question is yes: Wufoo, for example, is very much following the 37 Signals model.

Re: DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

#90

Post by menloparkbum »

tptacek wrote: post #85
menloparkbum wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Compared to Chicago, Seattle, Portland, Atlanta, or Boston, San Francisco is filthy, both in a "civic pride and basic hygiene" sense, and in a "methadone clinics spewing out mentally ill homeless people contributing to a desperate humanitarian crisis" sense. - I agree with that, I guess. SF is pretty psychotic. * What areas are walkably friendly got that way by gentrifying and bleaching out the culture and neighbor…

* I lived in Noe Valley for a couple years and never once even heard of a block party. "The SOMA block party"? Does that go by another name I'd know it by better, like, say, the Folsom Street Fair? That's hardly a "neighborhood" event, but then, SOMA isn't a neighborhood, and hasn't been since it was debrided by "live-work art spaces" (a.k.a. luxury condos). * JWZ is certainly not a good trendspotter, but you're prov…

It is actually a different block party centered around the park between 7th and 8th on Folsom. It caters mainly to the mexican people who live in the area. I've never heard of a block party in Noe, either. My apologies for bringing up race, but I used to rent an art studio in the Bayview and that was the only place in SF that I've seen block parties. I've lived mainly in white yuppie neighborhoods in various parts of the country and never encountered a block party in any of them. There have only been annual "street fairs." The only other place I've seen a proper block party was when I lived on the edge of a puerto rican neighborhood in Brooklyn.
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