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82-Year-Old Japanese Woman Finds Success in Coding

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Re: 82-Year-Old Japanese Woman Finds Success in Coding

#141

I just moved to Japan, and it's fascinating that connotations (including my previous) with Japan are "High tech, futuristic, efficient" when in reality it is, "slow moving, traditional, and (frequently) inefficient." I can comment more as to why / how. This woman is not only fighting cultural norms of the _world_, but also Japan. Software engineering, in general, lags so far behind the rest of the world, save robotic…

>> I can comment more as to why / how. please, I'd like to hear your observations.

I'm from the south in the US, specifically the Appalachia (`app-uh-lai-chuh` for us) region. The culture I grew up in and Japan aren't so dissimilar. That's partly why I live in Japan.

Aside from people being on time and getting food to you -- "things" (for lack of better term) move slow here. Some examples:

- It took me three weeks to get a debit card from one of the national banks here. They have a web login and send me an email every time I swipe my card; however, there's no way to check my balance online.

- At restaurants / coffee shops you'll stand in line for an exceptional amount of time. In NYC, if a line gets "out of hand" baristas / servers shorten the amount of attention they give to each customer. It's expected when you get to the counter, you know what you want. Not in Japan (or at least all the places I've visited). Many times people will get to the counter, after standing in line, and debate with their friends what to purchase. It's always great that you know the person behind the counter is giving you their full attention, but it's frustrating when you're behind 2 - 3 people who are taking their time with their purchase. It's especially ironic in a culture that is fixated on not inconveniencing others.

- Swiping a credit card is weirdly complicated. In most places in the USA / the rest of the world -- it's a 'swipe and go' sort of deal. In Japan many systems are geared more toward physical money and transit cards (Passmo / Suica). In many cases, using your bank card requires closing the transaction on the register, printing a receipt, keying this in on another machine, waiting, and signing (in some cases). The efficiency that transactions happen with in the USA is definitely something I took for granted.

- In terms of it being traditional here, I liken current Japanese culture to the US in the 1930s - 40s. A majority of people who work in Tokyo will be in suits (sometimes known as 'salary men' depending on their position), and the gestures of bowing and greeting are much like America's pre-WWII culture of tipping hats / more formal language. I've always been fascinated with more humble, traditional culture(s). I think it attributes to better humans.

Though it seems like I'm giving Japan a hard time in some ways -- it's just "different," but I wanted to highlight some of the ways that (as a foreigner) your predispositions affect your expectations of a culture. I largely attribute my own to media coverage of Japan in the U.S.

Tangent to all of this. One of my favorite things that was unexpected, but obvious once I knew about it was the Japanese concept of "monozukuri"[1]. Many things are so well crafted here, because of a cultural emphasis on producing things with quality. I also think this is a part of why things move slow here. Americans are so focused on immediacy that there's a line of books exploiting that, Sam's "Learn X in 24HRs." I respect Japan for not being the "face paced" culture SF / NYC have turned into. Tokyo feels so tame in comparison, and (for me at least) that's a good thing.

1 - http://www.japanintercultural.com/en/news/default.aspx?newsi...

Re: 82-Year-Old Japanese Woman Finds Success in Coding

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of off topic, but I've always found Japanese domain names to weird. They always seem to be subdomains of someone else's site. Why is this?

Reminds me of my early days in the web (early to mid 2000's) when people had GeoCities websites, Angelfire, etc... For the record GeoCities never closed for Japan probably due to this phenomena you mention where they just host somewhere instead of buying a domain. I wonder how many pay for hosting despite only having a subdomain.

Even more crazy, the Japanese Geocities is part of the Japanese Yahoo.

Sometimes it really feels like they have a parallel web going on over there!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahoo!_GeoCities#GeoCities_Jap...

Re: 82-Year-Old Japanese Woman Finds Success in Coding

#143
post #6

What does it mean "oriented to old people"? Old people can play anything, they just have slower reflexes. Silver Snipers are 60-80 years old and play Counter Strike: https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/20/16800924/silver-snipers-...

One of the things she mentions in the interview with Tim Cook, at the bottom of the article, is that many old people have trouble swiping on their phone, so she wanted the game to be playable through only tapping the phone.

Re: 82-Year-Old Japanese Woman Finds Success in Coding

#144

I just moved to Japan, and it's fascinating that connotations (including my previous) with Japan are "High tech, futuristic, efficient" when in reality it is, "slow moving, traditional, and (frequently) inefficient." I can comment more as to why / how. This woman is not only fighting cultural norms of the _world_, but also Japan. Software engineering, in general, lags so far behind the rest of the world, save robotic…

> when in reality it is, "slow moving, traditional, and (frequently) inefficient." Since you just moved here, I would also consider the "whys" of those problems you see. Approaches are probably different from what you're used to elsewhere, but that doesn't necessarily make them inefficient or bad -- just different from what you're used to.

Agreed. You can see my other comment, but I think it takes some time to wrap your head around and reconciling the differences.

Re: 82-Year-Old Japanese Woman Finds Success in Coding

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The same thing happens to my kids when I present them with a bash shell. They don't understand how to read the instructions Uhm, the issue here is squarely on Bash's end, not your kid's. Even the Windows command prompt is far more intuitive to learn. I know because I vividly remember how much more confused I got when learning the former. In Windows, when you type "help", it actually gives you helpful commands: COPY…

> In Windows, when you type "help", it actually gives you helpful commands: COPY, MOVE, DEL, REN/RENAME, etc. and at least the basic commands are actually what you'd expect. At least you have a foothold somewhere that you can ground yourself, and you start learning a bit more every time. Yes, this. I recall back in the MS-DOS days that I frequently used a text-GUI help menu that showed all the commands you could do a…

> Personally, this is what I struggle with on *nix shells

Once you learn the 8000 or so commands, it becomes incredibly intuitive.

Re: 82-Year-Old Japanese Woman Finds Success in Coding

#147
post #37

I feel it is kind of sad to see old people in the casinos. They are mindless spending time. They don't even seem to enjoy it. There must be games that are more enjoyable than that. no skill needed, no creativity being developed.

I actually stepped foot into a depressing casino some years ago and actually saw slot machines, and was amazed that would appeal to anyone. they're full blown video games but only have one button. super boring! and dumb - hey here's our hotel and restaurant, but to pay for your stay, instead of paying at the desk, you have to spend your whole vacation in a dark smoky room buying tokens to feed into a machine and push…

I think that simplicity is actually part of the addiction. You have to only press that one button, and "exciting" stuff automatically happens.

Re: 82-Year-Old Japanese Woman Finds Success in Coding

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I can comment more as to why / how. please, I'd like to hear your observations.

I'm from the south in the US, specifically the Appalachia (`app-uh-lai-chuh` for us) region. The culture I grew up in and Japan aren't so dissimilar. That's partly why I live in Japan. Aside from people being on time and getting food to you -- "things" (for lack of better term) move slow here. Some examples: - It took me three weeks to get a debit card from one of the national banks here. They have a web login and se…

Interesting observations. But for me, (been in Japan many times over the last 5 years), I didn't notice any of the items you mentioned.

Seemed similar to NY/SF speed in Tokyo, Osaka, and Yokohama.

To me, there is less or no small talk- definitely in places like Lawson and 7/11, but even department stores, with local or foreigner customers.

I noticed things go slower in Kyoto and other small towns, but no slower than small towns anywhere else in the world.

Re: 82-Year-Old Japanese Woman Finds Success in Coding

#149
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coming from the chess world, I suspect your hypothesis is correct. I've taught adults and children and all else being equal adults learn and improve vastly faster than children. But the all else being equal part is the catch. Adults often don't put as much effort into the work as children and a big problem is preconceptions that people have difficulty letting go of. I also consider myself some slight degree of proof…

Teaching beginners? Sure, most little kids are immature and don't understand the big picture concepts of general strategy that adults already learned before they started studying chess. And adult many likely already had some chess experience. But Progressing through to expert or world-class? History verifies the conventional wisdom that ages ~12-30 show the greatest gains. And when you look over to things like langua…

To compare apples to apples you need to look at a given sample that have engaged in the same amount of effort and compare it to another group that has engaged in the same amount of effort. For instance the media representation of the chess prodigy completely misses out that our 'prodigy' has been studying chess beyond full time for 6+ years. How does this compare to adults who study chess as a beyond full time job for 6 years? Well it's tough to say since almost nobody actually does this.

Laszlo Polgar's experiment is tangential but an interesting aside here at least on the notion of 'conventional wisdom'. Polgar wanted to perform an experiment on the nature of mastery of something (mathematics/music/chess/etc) being a matter of work rather than some natural talent as was, and remains the view of 'conventional wisdom.' After some consideration he decided to use chess, something he had no particular talent in, as his test bed -- and announced beforehand that he would create a master. He found a wife (also of no meaningful chess talent) willing to participate and they had a child which was their experiment subject. In fact the experiment was made doubling interesting by the fact that he had a girl. Then another. Then another. "Conventional wisdom verifies" that girls tend to do worse at chess than boys. Those children were Susan[1], Sofia[2], and Judit [3]. He created 2 grandmasters, and one international master. Judit becoming the 8th highest rated player in the world!

Language is another interesting example. I enjoy traveling and know many people that became fluent in languages as adults. And the vast majority tend to share one thing in common - they were forcefully immersed in the language. Cutting out the abstracts there - they tend to have wives or girlfriends that speak little to no english. There's no chicken or egg there, they invariably learned the language after moving in with the person. I expect you'll find the children that are genuinely trilingual (and not I took 4 years of spanish in school and can kind of speak it passably type 'fluent') will be made up heavily of children where multiple languages were spoken in their household - the same sort of 'forcible immersion.'

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Polgar

[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sofia_Polgar

[3] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judit_Polg%C3%A1r

Re: 82-Year-Old Japanese Woman Finds Success in Coding

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I can comment more as to why / how. please, I'd like to hear your observations.

I'm from the south in the US, specifically the Appalachia (`app-uh-lai-chuh` for us) region. The culture I grew up in and Japan aren't so dissimilar. That's partly why I live in Japan. Aside from people being on time and getting food to you -- "things" (for lack of better term) move slow here. Some examples: - It took me three weeks to get a debit card from one of the national banks here. They have a web login and se…

> Many things are so well crafted here, because of a cultural emphasis on producing things with quality.

I think this, at least partially, is the culprit behind being slow. Quality requires time, years of practice, sweat, dedication and experience. And it works really well for craftsmanship. Japan is well known for it's craft, art, cuisine and aesthetics - even in trivial cases like design of manholes or disposable shopping packages. Unfortunately, the same doesn't seem to work for technology, especially for IT. Learn a language/framework today, forget tomorrow, rapidly switch to more efficient solution, keep up with industry standards and everyday learn something new. There's no place for "learn once - master whole life" concept in current enterprise environment. Maybe with exclusion of basic principles. Everything else change on a daily basis. Yet, Japanese web pages tend to look like messy amateur pages on GeoCities 20 years ago and financial institutions wouldn't change for ages (actually, their online pages looks even worse.)

I do disagree about restaurant lines, though. I've yet to see so well organized crowd. And people do know what to order when they reach the counter because in most places they have a menu in their hands long before they get there. And any other lines, on that matter, especially when you compare Western train/metro stations.

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