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CBS “60 Minutes” piece on Google’s abuse of dominance

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Re: CBS “60 Minutes” piece on Google’s abuse of dominance

#151
post #64

When I want to buy something, I type "amazon.com", not "google.com". So, why don't I type "yelp.com", when I want to go somewhere? There is nothing to complain about, when your product sucks.

You're pretending like 90% of people don't interface with the network by just using google. The few people who don't do that just search social networks instead.

I'm old enough to type in a URL, I rarely see anyone else who does that anymore.

Re: CBS “60 Minutes” piece on Google’s abuse of dominance

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 60 Minutes didn't reveal anything here a lot of us don't already know In my experience, 60 Minutes is less about breaking news than competently explaining it. The tech community, as a whole, is generally bad at communicating its non-commercial preferences. This issue is no exception.

I don't think it served well as completely explaining it, because Android and Chrome were only cursory mentions, and I'd argue they're both critical to Google's ability to control the Internet, while each also being monopolies in their own right.

In what sense is Chrome a monopoly?

Re: CBS “60 Minutes” piece on Google’s abuse of dominance

#153

CBS interview leaves out critical details. Initially, Google was scrapping Yelp reviews to show snippets in their Google Places product. Yelp CEO didn't liked that and demanded to remove all snippets. Google said it had right to show snippets like any other websites and if Yelp says their content is "private" then Google shouldn't be crawling them at all. That's what they did. This caused Yelp to disappear from Googl…

As someone that tried to write a scraper against yelp for their reviews. (I wanted to do a recommendation engine to recommend new places based on what/who others liked and what I may liked, but haven't checked out yet).

They're VERY aggressive about banning/catching bots. They intentionally inflate their search rankings and will throw a 404 against requests for what they list. (I.e. they'll say that they've found 15 pages of results, but if you hit the 14/15th .. they'll throw a 404)

On the other side: You can't pull all of the reviews for a place via their api. You're limited to 3 per business.

Re: CBS “60 Minutes” piece on Google’s abuse of dominance

#154

In the US, Yelp was the go-to for reviews. But that's not the case in other markets. Travel to Australia, and you'll find that basically the only reviews are from Americans. All the Australians use Google. Which makes Yelp in Australia GREAT for Americans. A feature I wish they would build out officially. I like seeing how other people like me rate things. When someone says, "The pizza ain't like home." I know to tru…

That's what I've found about travelling out of the US. Tripadvisor is good/decent. Although it's gamed a lot.

Yelp is TERRIBLE for food choices. In the Caribbean, you'll see how bad it is. (There aren't a lot of reviews and the places that are reviewed are really bad)

Re: CBS “60 Minutes” piece on Google’s abuse of dominance

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be right, but a company’s abuse of dominant position isn’t defined by the quality of their competitor’s offer.

Yelp has been horrible since day one. If google has or has not abused its position Yelp is not the standard we would use to determine that.

The enemy of my enemy is... still horrible.

Re: CBS “60 Minutes” piece on Google’s abuse of dominance

#157
I use Yelp all the time. I’ve never even considered using Google maps as a replacement for Yelp.

But I just tried it and you know what? I think I might switch. I just did a search for “lunch” from my house, and it came up with all my favorite places. (I know this could be because it’s using what it knows about my location data to suggest places I’ve been to frequently, which is why I’m not totally sold yet).

I’ll try using both for a while and see how it goes.

Re: CBS “60 Minutes” piece on Google’s abuse of dominance

#158

Yelp is crying sour grapes here. There are so many ways they could have innovated to stay relevant but has anything changed in years there? They could have hired professional reviewers. Yelp reviews are notoriously bad. They could have let you choose what you prefer, example (quality vs quantity) and given you custom ratings or only included reviews from people that share similar tastes. Following up on the last idea…

Going to have to agree with some caveats. Google's review system is pretty superb. But that doesn't mean they don't dominate this area. However, I feel like this is a space that could still use some innovation. I use Waze for navigation but for informational purposes I still use Maps.

I would be, dare I say it, willing to subscribe to a cheap platform that would do both better.

Re: CBS “60 Minutes” piece on Google’s abuse of dominance

#159
post #64

When I want to buy something, I type "amazon.com", not "google.com". So, why don't I type "yelp.com", when I want to go somewhere? There is nothing to complain about, when your product sucks.

This way of shopping/browsing is becoming, if not already, the minority.

People use the address bar as a query line - increasingly with voice commands over the address bar even.

So, whomever runs the search tool behind the search bar (overwhelmingly google) controls the product space.

Re: CBS “60 Minutes” piece on Google’s abuse of dominance

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it served well as completely explaining it, because Android and Chrome were only cursory mentions, and I'd argue they're both critical to Google's ability to control the Internet, while each also being monopolies in their own right.

In what sense is Chrome a monopoly?

It has an exceedingly dominant market share (FYI: Being a monopoly does not require "zero alternatives exist". Merely that those alternatives are at the mercy of the main one), which it uses to direct and control Internet protocols in the way it finds most beneficial to Google.

All new Internet protocols and 'standards' proposed by Google come with the implied threat that Google will do it anyways, since often Google implements it in Chrome before it is a standard, leaving everyone else to accept it or be rendered incompatible with Google, who has control of most of the Internet.

A significant number of websites now only test against Chrome and only support Chrome, leaving really only one option, often, when trying to interact with a given Internet entity.

And Chrome isn't just a monopoly, it's a monopoly they illegally use to manipulate the market and boost their other products. For instance, while competing search engines can bid for default placement on Firefox, Google gives it's own search engine exclusive rights to be default there, the monopoly search engine on the monopoly browser.

Recently, Google even introduced a method for banning competitors ads into Chrome, rendering Google ads the only "sure thing" for not having your ads arbitrarily blocked by Google.

Chrome is one of the clearest examples of why Google must be broken up. It's Ad/Search business cannot own platforms like Chrome and Android.

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