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Germany Acts to Tame Facebook, Learning from Its Own History of Hate

nytimes.com

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Re: Germany Acts to Tame Facebook, Learning from Its Own History of Hate

#61

Post by eropple »

lopmotr wrote: post #60
cat199 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

excitement? that's just dumbness. Nazi whatever aside, these are border officers.. You don't mess with them, period, unless you're into body cavity searches and the like..

You really shouldn't blame the victim just because you've been reading more news stories than him. It's the sort of thing I might have done when I was younger. I grew up trusting authorities and them always being reasonable and I would never have imagined Germany was such a bizarrely brutal place. People often joke with the workers they have to interact with. I've done that before. It's human nature. I used to have a…

> I used to have a nazi symbol on my car just to rile people up.

No healthy person does this "just to rile people up."

This is profoundly fucked behavior, and in a sane society it does, and should, lead to ostracizing. Actions have consequences.

Re: Germany Acts to Tame Facebook, Learning from Its Own History of Hate

#62

Post by kuerbel »

lopmotr wrote: post #60
cat199 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

excitement? that's just dumbness. Nazi whatever aside, these are border officers.. You don't mess with them, period, unless you're into body cavity searches and the like..

You really shouldn't blame the victim just because you've been reading more news stories than him. It's the sort of thing I might have done when I was younger. I grew up trusting authorities and them always being reasonable and I would never have imagined Germany was such a bizarrely brutal place. People often joke with the workers they have to interact with. I've done that before. It's human nature. I used to have a…

Are you serious? I am from Switzerland and live in Germany for 10 years, even in Switzerland I would not dare to say this to an officer. At worst they will take it as a personal offence, like I'd imply they are like the Gestapo and at best they'll suspect that I am on drugs or mentally handicapped.

Re: Germany Acts to Tame Facebook, Learning from Its Own History of Hate

#63

Post by foepys »

always_good wrote: post #32
danbruc wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how good or bad the German definition of hate speech is, my point was more that even if there is or were no precise definition, it would still not be a huge problem. This just seems to be a rather popular misconceptions that laws require and are not useful without perfect definitions for everything. In reality there is a lot for variation, some things are totally nailed down, some things are intentionall…

The less something like "hate speech" is nailed down, the more the law can be used to criminalize anything. There absolutely is a problem with these sorts of laws. For example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obscenity .

The justice system in Germany is operating completely different than the US justice system. While in the US precedent is one of the most important factors, German courts try to apply "common sense" (quite literally). Laws take this into account and leave a lot more wiggle room for the courts. Thus the laws in Germany occur strange to Americans that only know "if it's not explicitly forbidden, it's allowed".

Re: Germany Acts to Tame Facebook, Learning from Its Own History of Hate

#64

Post by Pica_soO »

lopmotr wrote: post #56
labster wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish the United States had that law, instant impeachable offense for our president. Especially the insulting part, he seems to need to insult others in order to breathe.

[flagged]

This- also history thought us that shunned and silenced ideas, get a "cool" bonus with the youth, who just search for a reason to provoke the previous generation.

Its unbelievable, that the same methods that where used to "prevent" the spreading of Gangsta-culture, and horribly "failed" (because the music was good) are used to contain extreme-right ideas. As a result a whole generation of youth, will take to the alt-right as a "our-culture" movement and do the hitler-crib-walk.

If the left ever want to recover from living historys memory fading, it has not only to rethink its core concepts but also its tools. Cause there attempts at society control basically boil down to supporting the opposing sites cause.

Half, of those alt-righters you see, are basically under-class trying to distance themselves as far as possible from what is perceived as entitled culture-controll-class of university dwelling aristocrats. In short, that is the proletariat the left was made off. The irony.

It also does not help that whenever you talk with them, this hidden enthusiasm for totalitarian systems (Putins Russia/China) flares up, where "the gloves are off" for Place-unwanted-Group-Here.

Re: Germany Acts to Tame Facebook, Learning from Its Own History of Hate

#65

Post by travmatt »

Andre_Wanglin wrote: post #53

Is hate never justifiable?

There’s a difference between what’s good for a country and what’s good for an individual person - society at large can’t really function if it laws place the singular wants and needs of any given person as the metric of allowable. Just because you can justify a hatred doesn’t mean there’s some transitive property that means society should therefore tolerate it.

Re: Germany Acts to Tame Facebook, Learning from Its Own History of Hate

#66

Post by Pica_soO »

eropple wrote: post #61
lopmotr wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really shouldn't blame the victim just because you've been reading more news stories than him. It's the sort of thing I might have done when I was younger. I grew up trusting authorities and them always being reasonable and I would never have imagined Germany was such a bizarrely brutal place. People often joke with the workers they have to interact with. I've done that before. It's human nature. I used to have a…

> I used to have a nazi symbol on my car just to rile people up. No healthy person does this "just to rile people up." This is profoundly fucked behavior, and in a sane society it does, and should, lead to ostracizing. Actions have consequences.

If you have a whole class of people who have every hour of the day to nanny and harass other people - to rile them up- with any means possible, seems like a good cause.

Bonus Points if you put a Hammer and Sickle right next to them. Creepy Thought-controll-freaks of all nations united- in outrage. My man.

Re: Germany Acts to Tame Facebook, Learning from Its Own History of Hate

#67

Post by partiallypro »

labster wrote: post #51
doesnt_know wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hate speech laws aren't completely uncommon, so individual users would be liable for creating it. In NZ law, it's part of our Human Rights Act: http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1993/0082/latest/D... "It shall be unlawful for any person to publish or distribute written matter which is threatening, abusive, or insulting, or to broadcast by means of radio or television or other electronic communication words wh…

I wish the United States had that law, instant impeachable offense for our president. Especially the insulting part, he seems to need to insult others in order to breathe.

a) why must US politics be interjected into everything?

b) I would rather the US have free speech instead of punishing thought crimes.

Re: Germany Acts to Tame Facebook, Learning from Its Own History of Hate

#68

Post by DocTomoe »

joering2 wrote: post #37
dmoy wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depending on the type of hate speech in Germany, you can get thrown in prison for up to 5 years.

Thats true. One of my ex classmates went first time abroad, and upon leaving zoll (german border) he told officer “heil hitler” out of pure excitement and probably too many historical movies watched (is there anything else to watch that is german made?). No amount of explanations was sufficient. He got 3 months behind bars and 10 years ban to visit germany. That was in 2007. I assume now its even worse.

God, what an asshole. Three months seem hardly enough to teach this level of stupid.

Re: Germany Acts to Tame Facebook, Learning from Its Own History of Hate

#69

Post by DocTomoe »

lopmotr wrote: post #60
cat199 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

excitement? that's just dumbness. Nazi whatever aside, these are border officers.. You don't mess with them, period, unless you're into body cavity searches and the like..

You really shouldn't blame the victim just because you've been reading more news stories than him. It's the sort of thing I might have done when I was younger. I grew up trusting authorities and them always being reasonable and I would never have imagined Germany was such a bizarrely brutal place. People often joke with the workers they have to interact with. I've done that before. It's human nature. I used to have a…

> You really shouldn't blame the victim

Point is, he's not a victim, he's a criminal and has received his well-deserved punishment.

> you've been reading more news stories than him.

When you go to another country, it is your responsibility to follow their laws. Ignorantia legis non excusat.

>I grew up trusting authorities and them always being reasonable and I would never have imagined Germany was such a bizarrely brutal place.

"Brutal". In all fairness, compared to US prisons, German prisons must feel like holiday resorts... As a German citizen, I trust my authorities to uphold the laws.

> I used to have a nazi symbol on my car just to rile people up.

No. You had Nazi symbolism on your car because you are likely someone who agrees with the ideology. This also reflects in the kind of people you hang around with.

> Once a neighbor called the police who were completely reasonable and asked me to please not park so close to his house because it's making him angry.

And in Germany, you would have gotten jail time (§ 86a StGB), have your car confiscated and likely destroyed, and probably would have lost your driving license because you have demonstrated that you lack the adequate character to safely operate a vehicle.

And I would have been ok with that.

Re: Germany Acts to Tame Facebook, Learning from Its Own History of Hate

#70

Post by [deleted] »

kodablah wrote: post #11

What even is this article? There is nothing substantive here. Like many other mainstream tech articles these days, this reeks of mass-media narrative control. I just wonder if it's the clicks that drive these or if there are other actors behind the scenes encouraging the deluge of anti-FB, anti-Goog, anti-Twitter, etc articles. Maybe I'm viewing this too broadly, but I get an icky feeling of intentional furor constru…

[deleted]
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