Group of scientists suggest that octopuses might actually be aliens • Hacker News Board

Re: Group of scientists suggest that octopuses might actually be aliens

#61

Post by GuiA » Sun, May 20, 2018, 4:59 AM UTC

eco wrote: post #56

agar wrote: post #12

As much as I love the concept, I can only imagine what a professional with expertise in cephalopods and their DNA would think while reading this article. If you've ever read a popular press story in your area of expertise, you immediately see how many things writers oversimplify to the point of absurdity, or just get plain wrong. I'm guessing the authors of that journal article, were they to read this news story, wou…

> If you've ever read a popular press story in your area of expertise, you immediately see how many things writers oversimplify to the point of absurdity, or just get plain wrong. I could have sworn there was a named Effect/Rule given to an extension of this but my googling is coming up short. It was about how you'll read a mainstream article about something you know a great deal about and see how much the journalist…

The Gell-Mann amnesia effect defines the idea that "I believe everything the media tells me except for anything for which I have direct personal knowledge, which they always get wrong."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gell-Mann_amnesia_effect

Re: Group of scientists suggest that octopuses might actually be aliens

#62

Post by strictnein » Sun, May 20, 2018, 5:03 AM UTC

throw7 wrote: post #50

I too am awaiting the return of the old ones.

I would like to avoid meeting any shoggoths.

Tekeli-li Tekeli-li

Re: Group of scientists suggest that octopuses might actually be aliens

#63

Post by tmearnest » Sun, May 20, 2018, 5:04 AM UTC

I find this notion to be completely ridiculous. There's some things that are common to all life. The genetic code for instance. There are of course different dialects [1], but they're all fairly similar, and all code for the same set of amino acids. Cephalopods use the same means of storing genetic information, DNA with the bases G, C, A, and T. They have the same machinery to translate the genetic code into proteins, ribosomes. Ribosomal structure is highly conserved among all life. The idea that all of these molecular machinery developed in parallel on a different planet with the exact same genetic code, means of storing genetic information, and means of converting genetic information in protein is beyond absurd.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Taxonomy/Utils/wprintgc.cgi

Re: Group of scientists suggest that octopuses might actually be aliens

#64

Post by TimTheTinker » Sun, May 20, 2018, 5:04 AM UTC

caconym_ wrote: post #38

TimTheTinker wrote: post #19

Just my own perspective: as one who believes God is responsible for the origin, complexity, and diversity of life, this article makes me chuckle. The theory of evolution as an explanation of the origin of the major taxa of life really paints us into a corner from which it is difficult to wiggle out. In my opinion, the panspermia/alien origin hypothesis (and its persistence as an explanation in some respected circles)…

Science tries its best to discover the correct explanation for phenomena, and accepts gaps in knowledge as a natural consequence of the ongoing nature of its pursuit of the truth. You are welcome to believe what you want, but you must understand that accepting faith-based explanations with zero supporting evidence is a fundamentally different sort of thing. Of course you think you have the answers, and that people st…

I'm not arguing with the scientific method, or the power of looking for natural explanations through experimentation.

It's just that examining evidence related to past events can only go so far in explaining their cause. If you assume natural causes all the way back, you will inevitably reach the limit of a natural chain of events. If the origin of life isn't a big enough question, perhaps the origin of the big bang is -- how does anyone go there without stepping into the metaphysical?

> How do you figure that? They seem quite different to me, given the properties that are usually ascribed to hypothetical divine beings.

My point is that on the surface, philosophically speaking, there's no difference between the two explanations beyond their starting assumptions.

> zero evidence

Not at all. Everything that exists constitutes evidence for him in one way or another. (It’s late. Can provide more details tomorrow if you’re interested.)

Re: Group of scientists suggest that octopuses might actually be aliens

#65

Post by Nomentatus » Sun, May 20, 2018, 5:06 AM UTC

mirimir wrote: post #55

Nomentatus wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article gives direct quotes from the authors, and the quotes are exciting, (33 authors FWIW) https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/958247/alien-octopuse...

OK, but "gene complexes", not necessarily octopuses, per se .

Not necessarily, true. But these aren't bacteria and this is a whole lotta genes - so life here absorbing so much DNA coherently doesn't sound more plausible than eggs hatching to me. (Meteorites are freezing cold if you touch them right after they land, despite ablating most of their mass on the way down. Or rather, iron ones are - carbonaceous, I have no idea.)

Re: Group of scientists suggest that octopuses might actually be aliens

#66

Post by ianai » Sun, May 20, 2018, 5:08 AM UTC

foo101 wrote: post #30

Here is what I would like to understand: If there is any truth to the theory that Octopuses indeed evolved in outer space and were delivered to our planet via a cosmic payload, how is it that they happened to have the same kind of protein-based, DNA-based genetics like we have? Isn't it too much of a stretch to imagine that an alien evolved under similar conditions with similar genetic foundation like life evolved in…

It does say our genes are very different from theirs. Also maybe the eggs were somehow flexible on that.

Re: Group of scientists suggest that octopuses might actually be aliens

#67

Post by TimTheTinker » Sun, May 20, 2018, 5:08 AM UTC

0xBA5ED wrote: post #60

TimTheTinker wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking for Christianity, God's omnipotence does not mean he can violate his own nature. In fact, he is very limited in the sense that there are an infinite number of things that he cannot do because they are inconsistent with his nature -- his holiness, truth, love, and wisdom.

This literally means that God is not "all powerful". And if there are things he is simply incapable of experiencing, this also means he is not "all knowing".

Yes it does mean that. However, he is "all powerful" where it matters - to accomplish his own will, which is consistent with his character.

Re: Group of scientists suggest that octopuses might actually be aliens

#68

Post by mirimir » Sun, May 20, 2018, 5:09 AM UTC

Nomentatus wrote: post #65

mirimir wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, but "gene complexes", not necessarily octopuses, per se .

Not necessarily, true. But these aren't bacteria and this is a whole lotta genes - so life here absorbing so much DNA coherently doesn't sound more plausible than eggs hatching to me. (Meteorites are freezing cold if you touch them right after they land, despite ablating most of their mass on the way down. Or rather, iron ones are - carbonaceous, I have no idea.)

We humans use genes that were delivered by viruses.

Re: Group of scientists suggest that octopuses might actually be aliens

#69

Post by bajames » Sun, May 20, 2018, 5:11 AM UTC

eco wrote: post #56

agar wrote: post #12

As much as I love the concept, I can only imagine what a professional with expertise in cephalopods and their DNA would think while reading this article. If you've ever read a popular press story in your area of expertise, you immediately see how many things writers oversimplify to the point of absurdity, or just get plain wrong. I'm guessing the authors of that journal article, were they to read this news story, wou…

> If you've ever read a popular press story in your area of expertise, you immediately see how many things writers oversimplify to the point of absurdity, or just get plain wrong. I could have sworn there was a named Effect/Rule given to an extension of this but my googling is coming up short. It was about how you'll read a mainstream article about something you know a great deal about and see how much the journalist…

Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gell-Mann_amnesia_effect

Re: Group of scientists suggest that octopuses might actually be aliens

#70

Post by rukittenme » Sun, May 20, 2018, 5:17 AM UTC

> Its large brain and sophisticated nervous system, camera-like eyes, flexible bodies, instantaneous camouflage via the ability to switch color and shape are just a few of the striking features that appear suddenly on the evolutionary scene

Argument from incredulity.

> The genome of the Octopus shows a staggering level of complexity with 33,000 protein-coding genes more than is present in Homo sapiens.

Red herring.

> this “great leap forward” in complexity was due to “cryopreserved squid and/or octopus eggs” crashing into the ocean on comets millions of years ago

No evidence provided to support this claim. In addition, Cephalopoda is a very well documented clade. Meaning we have fossilized evidence the octopuses originated and developed on this planet.

> crashing into the ocean on comets millions of years ago.

Probabilistic fallacy. Interstellar objects in our solar system are rare (only one ever documented). Comets seeded with eggs have never been documented and should be considered exceedingly rare. The number of comets that ever make contact with Earth is very, very low.