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Libui: a portable GUI library for C

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Re: Libui: a portable GUI library for C

#41

Post by saagarjha »

tacostakohashi wrote: post #17
fernly wrote: post #3

I might be interested, esp. since it claims Python bindings, but documentation appears to be nil. Seriously, nonexistent. A GUI lib surely has an API complex enough to require _some_ kind of reference docs, at least. But the contents of the doc folder[1] are just a joke, most of the files contain single lines, and the .md files are fragments with many "TODO" notes. So OK maybe I can get some insight reading the code.…

I have no doubt that the author would accept a patch should you see fit to contribute some documentation.

Sure, but I hope you agree that I have no obligation to submit a patch, given that I'm not using this software, just as the author has no obligation to provide documentation for me either.

Re: Libui: a portable GUI library for C

#42

Post by saagarjha »

krapp wrote: post #5
fernly wrote: post #3

I might be interested, esp. since it claims Python bindings, but documentation appears to be nil. Seriously, nonexistent. A GUI lib surely has an API complex enough to require _some_ kind of reference docs, at least. But the contents of the doc folder[1] are just a joke, most of the files contain single lines, and the .md files are fragments with many "TODO" notes. So OK maybe I can get some insight reading the code.…

try the examples folder.

That's nice, but falls quite short of proper documentation.

Re: Libui: a portable GUI library for C

#43

Post by Jach »

saagarjha wrote: post #36

A lot of the comments have mentioned the lack of documentation this project has, and then they've received replies of the form "you should submit a pull request, the author doesn't owe you anything". Here's my take on it: I don't owe the author anything either. But if I'm considering which project to use, I'd probably choose the one with documentation, since it signals better goals and higher code quality. It's absur…

People suck at communicating, but people want to communicate. People love to complain more than they love to fix things. A lot of the time a complaint is half frustration, half trying-to-be-helpful-suggestion. Sometimes it's just people complaining about other people complaining (like the "fix it yourself" crowd or the "didn't you reflect before posting that the issue of X is already a known concern?" crowd) but this just goes back to people wanting to communicate.

I suppose all I really wanted to say was that maybe people in general should open their mouths / comment boxes less. (Yeah my comment sucks, doesn't listen to its own advice...)

Re: Libui: a portable GUI library for C

#44

Post by jancsika »

rendaw wrote: post #27
vortico wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great! If you can answer those questions, send a pull request to add it to the docstring. You've spent some time thinking of those questions, so you'd write a very complete docstring. Complaining will not solve the issue. Sending a PR will solve it. This is what I was saying above. I am attempting to orient people into the "open-contribution" community, where we share the opinion that free software is NOT free to pro…

There are times when people report an issue to an open source project and the response is "You should fix it yourself". Open source contribution happens when the contributor has invested themself in the project and wants to maintain the relationship. Perhaps the requester is evaluating multiple packages and wants to inform the project why they're going with another one instead. Maybe they got to the point in their ev…

I find if you maintain an open source project as if your users were customers, things tend to go pretty smooth.

Re: Libui: a portable GUI library for C

#45

Post by dman »

saagarjha wrote: post #40
dman wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it a bit sad that this is the top comment. I have witnessed free software/OSS have tremendous amount of positive effect on the world, however as the years go by I can't help feeling that we have trained a generation of users to act in an entitled manner towards software that is free and often the labor of love of some fellow developer trying to get better at their craft.

> I have witnessed free software/OSS have tremendous amount of positive effect on the world, however as the years go by I can't help feeling that we have trained a generation of users to act in an entitled manner towards software that is free and often the labor of love of some fellow developer trying to get better at their craft The only issue I see with the parent comment is that it's a bit harsh. But it's good adv…

What about the effect of harsh comments on the creators morale?

Re: Libui: a portable GUI library for C

#46

Post by kazinator »

saagarjha wrote: post #36

A lot of the comments have mentioned the lack of documentation this project has, and then they've received replies of the form "you should submit a pull request, the author doesn't owe you anything". Here's my take on it: I don't owe the author anything either. But if I'm considering which project to use, I'd probably choose the one with documentation, since it signals better goals and higher code quality. It's absur…

Documentation gives at least the functional, if not detailed, requirements for what the code is supposed to do (as well as not do). "Submit a pull request for documentation" is basically "please write down the set of requirements for what you think I might have coded up here and send them to me" which is an absurd way to do engineering, regardless of considerations of licensing and compensation structure.

It's okay to have that attitude about tutorials, and guides to internals, and other satellite docs, but not core documentation (reference manual or spec).

Re: Libui: a portable GUI library for C

#47

Post by omeid2 »

kazinator wrote: post #46
saagarjha wrote: post #36

A lot of the comments have mentioned the lack of documentation this project has, and then they've received replies of the form "you should submit a pull request, the author doesn't owe you anything". Here's my take on it: I don't owe the author anything either. But if I'm considering which project to use, I'd probably choose the one with documentation, since it signals better goals and higher code quality. It's absur…

Documentation gives at least the functional, if not detailed, requirements for what the code is supposed to do (as well as not do). "Submit a pull request for documentation" is basically "please write down the set of requirements for what you think I might have coded up here and send them to me" which is an absurd way to do engineering, regardless of considerations of licensing and compensation structure. It's okay t…

Yup, here is a good example of that in the wild: https://github.com/mholt/PapaParse/issues/495

Re: Libui: a portable GUI library for C

#48

Post by kazinator »

vortico wrote: post #15
geofft wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got to the first function in the API: _UI_EXTERN const char *uiInit(uiInitOptions *options); uiInitOptions is a struct that contains a single size_t Size. What's it the size of? Can I pass a NULL pointer? Does this function take ownership of the pointer, and if so, does it need to be allocated with malloc? If not, when can I free it - can I use a pointer onto my stack? Why does it take a non-const pointer - does th…

Great! If you can answer those questions, send a pull request to add it to the docstring. You've spent some time thinking of those questions, so you'd write a very complete docstring. Complaining will not solve the issue. Sending a PR will solve it. This is what I was saying above. I am attempting to orient people into the "open-contribution" community, where we share the opinion that free software is NOT free to pro…

geofft could just ignore the library completely without giving his valuable opinions on the kinds of things that should be specified in a reference document. That isn't complaining at all. Maybe the author really has no clue on what information to put into an API document; geofft's comment provides stimulating ideas.

geofft doesn't have an "issue" because he's not using the library; he can avoid the non-documentation problem for himself quite adequately by ignoring the library and moving to a different one.

> If you can answer those questions,

No you can't. You can only reverse engineer what the code does, not what the programmer intended.

Why would I sit there reverse engineering someone's code to write a document for them which codifies the bugs they didn't intend to make? They will just reject the doc "oh, thanks for writing this but that's not what's supposed to happen; that's a bug. Can you wait until next release and then change your document based on the new code? Thanks.".

Fuck that, you know?

Will the designer even take the document seriously going forward? Or will he just regard that as someone else's unimportant opinion about what a particular revision of his program did once upon a time?

We already know something about the designer's attitude is toward documentation, from the lack of it.

Satellite documentation: different story. I mean, tutorials, guides to internals and things like that. But, no, I'm not writing the basic, fundamental spec for your undocumented code you've already written.

Re: Libui: a portable GUI library for C

#49

Post by yani »

I have arrived at this library yesterday while trying to do a cross platform drag and drop app. I decided to go with x/screen package instead. The documentation and lack of examples threw me off. If I have to read the source in details to understand the app, I am better off writing the code x 3 with native tools. The library is supposed to save time not steal from it. It is wonderdul idea and I really like the name. I wish the author will make it more dev and contributor friendly so we can take it off the ground.

Re: Libui: a portable GUI library for C

#50

Post by _o_ »

saagarjha wrote: post #36

A lot of the comments have mentioned the lack of documentation this project has, and then they've received replies of the form "you should submit a pull request, the author doesn't owe you anything". Here's my take on it: I don't owe the author anything either. But if I'm considering which project to use, I'd probably choose the one with documentation, since it signals better goals and higher code quality. It's absur…

I am quite oposite, I want example code using as much aspects of library as possible - sort of "a picture is worth a thousand words". Documentation is nice to have, but I personally consider a well written code a documentation, and it doesnt get outdated ;)

Have you checked this: https://github.com/andlabs/libui/blob/master/examples/contro... ?

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