Group of scientists suggest that octopuses might actually be aliens • Hacker News Board

Re: Group of scientists suggest that octopuses might actually be aliens

#51

Post by TimTheTinker » Sun, May 20, 2018, 4:34 AM UTC

tree_of_item wrote: post #33

TimTheTinker wrote: post #19

Just my own perspective: as one who believes God is responsible for the origin, complexity, and diversity of life, this article makes me chuckle. The theory of evolution as an explanation of the origin of the major taxa of life really paints us into a corner from which it is difficult to wiggle out. In my opinion, the panspermia/alien origin hypothesis (and its persistence as an explanation in some respected circles)…

> The theory of evolution as an explanation of the origin of the major taxa of life really paints us into a corner from which it is difficult to wiggle out. I'm really not sure what you mean by this. > Also, the insistence on a distinction between "alien" and "divine" has no rational basis What?? You don't see a distinction between life on another planet and supernatural phenomena...?

> I'm really not sure what you mean by this.

If you assume the major groups of life evolved from common ancestors, the fossil record doesn't offer a lot of help to fill in the early details (i.e. transitional types). Also, you have the problem of the origin of the first single-cell organism.

> You don't see a distinction between life on another planet and supernatural phenomena...?

My point is that insisting on it being an alien life form that seeded life on earth (as opposed to the God hypothesis) is kind of begging the question. Philosophically, what is the difference between an unknown alien life form and God as the origin of life, other than different starting assumptions?

Re: Group of scientists suggest that octopuses might actually be aliens

#52

Post by jryan49 » Sun, May 20, 2018, 4:35 AM UTC

TimTheTinker wrote: post #19

Just my own perspective: as one who believes God is responsible for the origin, complexity, and diversity of life, this article makes me chuckle. The theory of evolution as an explanation of the origin of the major taxa of life really paints us into a corner from which it is difficult to wiggle out. In my opinion, the panspermia/alien origin hypothesis (and its persistence as an explanation in some respected circles)…

> limiting ourselves to natural explanations

So you mean looking into supernatural explanations? How does that fill any of the holes? It's by definition out of the realm of explanation... Also, saying that "God did it" has about as much content as panspermia ("somewhere else made it").

Re: Group of scientists suggest that octopuses might actually be aliens

#53

Post by heartbreak » Sun, May 20, 2018, 4:35 AM UTC

foo101 wrote: post #30

Here is what I would like to understand: If there is any truth to the theory that Octopuses indeed evolved in outer space and were delivered to our planet via a cosmic payload, how is it that they happened to have the same kind of protein-based, DNA-based genetics like we have? Isn't it too much of a stretch to imagine that an alien evolved under similar conditions with similar genetic foundation like life evolved in…

Earth’s abiogenesis could have started via a cosmic payload as well, which potentially answers your question regarding the shared biochemistry.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panspermia

Re: Group of scientists suggest that octopuses might actually be aliens

#54

Post by ianai » Sun, May 20, 2018, 4:41 AM UTC

Nomentatus wrote: post #16

agar wrote: post #12

As much as I love the concept, I can only imagine what a professional with expertise in cephalopods and their DNA would think while reading this article. If you've ever read a popular press story in your area of expertise, you immediately see how many things writers oversimplify to the point of absurdity, or just get plain wrong. I'm guessing the authors of that journal article, were they to read this news story, wou…

This article gives direct quotes from the authors, and the quotes are exciting, (33 authors FWIW) https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/958247/alien-octopuse...

Not entirely sure I can take that site seriously. Their ads seem pretty strongly in the fake news territory.

Re: Group of scientists suggest that octopuses might actually be aliens

#55

Post by mirimir » Sun, May 20, 2018, 4:45 AM UTC

Nomentatus wrote: post #16

agar wrote: post #12

As much as I love the concept, I can only imagine what a professional with expertise in cephalopods and their DNA would think while reading this article. If you've ever read a popular press story in your area of expertise, you immediately see how many things writers oversimplify to the point of absurdity, or just get plain wrong. I'm guessing the authors of that journal article, were they to read this news story, wou…

This article gives direct quotes from the authors, and the quotes are exciting, (33 authors FWIW) https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/958247/alien-octopuse...

OK, but "gene complexes", not necessarily octopuses, per se.

Re: Group of scientists suggest that octopuses might actually be aliens

#56

Post by eco » Sun, May 20, 2018, 4:45 AM UTC

agar wrote: post #12

As much as I love the concept, I can only imagine what a professional with expertise in cephalopods and their DNA would think while reading this article. If you've ever read a popular press story in your area of expertise, you immediately see how many things writers oversimplify to the point of absurdity, or just get plain wrong. I'm guessing the authors of that journal article, were they to read this news story, wou…

> If you've ever read a popular press story in your area of expertise, you immediately see how many things writers oversimplify to the point of absurdity, or just get plain wrong.

I could have sworn there was a named Effect/Rule given to an extension of this but my googling is coming up short. It was about how you'll read a mainstream article about something you know a great deal about and see how much the journalists got wrong but don't keep that in mind when reading about things outside your expertise. I believe I read about it in the comments here on HN. Does anyone know what it was?

Re: Group of scientists suggest that octopuses might actually be aliens

#57

Post by TimTheTinker » Sun, May 20, 2018, 4:48 AM UTC

peteretep wrote: post #45

TimTheTinker wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> place them arbitrarily, or even move them when they're inconvenient. I know others have been accused of that; I endeavor to maintain integrity.

This is ridiculous, and I'd also point out, despite my being atheist, that it's blasphemous. Monotheistic religions (almost all) believe in an omnipotent God. Omnipotent means that nothing binds the hand of God, at all. An omnipotent being can literally contrive any situation; they can change anything, from moment to moment, without leaving any traces whatsoever. They can change the very nature of logic itself withou…

Speaking for Christianity, God's omnipotence does not mean he can violate his own nature. In fact, he is very limited in the sense that there are an infinite number of things that he cannot do because they are inconsistent with his nature -- his holiness, truth, love, and wisdom.

Re: Group of scientists suggest that octopuses might actually be aliens

#58

Post by TelAvivHacker » Sun, May 20, 2018, 4:56 AM UTC

This makes no sense. How would an alien life form be encoded in a compatible DNA "language"?

Re: Group of scientists suggest that octopuses might actually be aliens

#59

Post by AlexCoventry » Sun, May 20, 2018, 4:56 AM UTC

ianai wrote: post #54

Nomentatus wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article gives direct quotes from the authors, and the quotes are exciting, (33 authors FWIW) https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/958247/alien-octopuse...

Not entirely sure I can take that site seriously. Their ads seem pretty strongly in the fake news territory.

The original paper is here. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S007961071...

Not sure I can take this paper seriously, either, but it's clear they're taking themselves seriously (in a good way.)

Re: Group of scientists suggest that octopuses might actually be aliens

#60

Post by 0xBA5ED » Sun, May 20, 2018, 4:57 AM UTC

TimTheTinker wrote: post #57

peteretep wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is ridiculous, and I'd also point out, despite my being atheist, that it's blasphemous. Monotheistic religions (almost all) believe in an omnipotent God. Omnipotent means that nothing binds the hand of God, at all. An omnipotent being can literally contrive any situation; they can change anything, from moment to moment, without leaving any traces whatsoever. They can change the very nature of logic itself withou…

Speaking for Christianity, God's omnipotence does not mean he can violate his own nature. In fact, he is very limited in the sense that there are an infinite number of things that he cannot do because they are inconsistent with his nature -- his holiness, truth, love, and wisdom.

This literally means that God is not "all powerful". And if there are things he is simply incapable of experiencing, this also means he is not "all knowing".