Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

37signals.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 110 posts

Re: DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

#51

Post by sabat »

jrockway wrote: post #29
sutro wrote: post #18

I'm glad you enjoy those wonderful Chicago winters, DHH.

Winter in Chicago isn't that bad. Do you think "wow, this is great weather" every day during the winter? No. But the spring, summer, and fall is very enjoyable. The problem with Chicago is that there are no other hackers around (all the tech people work for banks, and end up being as interesting as you'd imagine), and there are no 24-hour coffee shops, at least not near me. Chicago is a good place to be if you want t…

"Winter in Chicago isn't that bad."

In the words of 37signals -- and Dr. Phil -- get real. Winter is hell in Chicago, summer is a pressure cooker, and fall and spring are tolerable for a few days.

"Isn't that bad" is relative. Weather in the Bay Area is amazingly good. One of three mediterranean climates in the world. There is no comparison.

Re: DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

#52

Post by webwright »

tptacek wrote: post #31
webwright wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't trying to make an argument. However, if I was, I'd say: Draw a 50 mile radius circle around Stanford. Get a list of all consumer startup acquisitions in the last 2 years. Put a pin in the map for each acquisition. (This is straight from the mouth of Ron Conway, so apologies to him). Rinse/repeat for VC investment (which is nearly required for any consumer startup)-- it turns out that VCs tend to invest in Va…

Wow. For that argument to make sense, all you have to do is get bought by Google.

If your target path is VC and then acquisition, I'd say proximity to Google is a pretty good idea, wouldn't you? Throw in Yahoo, Ebay, and the many other big players who like to buy companies as a bonus.

The point is-- It's way easier to get funded in the Valley (I'm raising money in the Valley and Seattle right now, so I'm speaking from a bit of experience).

And the data seems to show that it's easier to sell your company if you're in the Valley (which is the only realistic path to liquidity for founders/investors). Even if the data didn't confirm it, it makes SENSE, doesn't it?

Re: DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

#53

Post by ivankirigin »

This issue is so much less important than other matters - and heavily context dependent. But I find the ability for two reasonable and diametrically opposing opinions interesting.

I just moved to SF from Boston. I think more people understand startups in the Valley, making hiring with equity displacing cash more of an option.

I also think my startup's success will heavily depend on distribution and business development deals. That makes moving to a concentrated area more important.

Re: DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

#54

Post by sabat »

tptacek wrote: post #27
gibsonf1 wrote: post #6

DHH talked about lifestyle at Startup camp, and lifestyle is the key reason to want to be in San Francisco. It is simply a great City to live in with the added benefit that almost any escape to the natural world, like skiiing, sailing, etc etc, is immediately available. The downside is some added cost, but the costs here are comparable to Southbay locations and other major Cities. So if you want to build a sustainabl…

Give me a break. I lived in San Francisco for a bunch of years, starting after my first company got bought out --- I've experienced the city both totally flush with cash and living paycheck to paycheck. Allow me to retort: * Public transportation in the Bay Area is a shambles, and, in particular, getting between any two points in the (tiny) city of San Francisco involves interaction with the worst bus system in the c…

Oh, blogga please.

"Public transportation in the Bay Area is a shambles". Well, you have me there. On the other hand, it sucks in most other large metro areas as well. NYC is the only real exception.

DHH meant the Bay Area and the SV, not San Francisco proper. "San Francisco" is what outside people call the Bay Area because they don't know better.

Housing has been spectacularly expensive everywhere in the US for some time now. We pay a premium for living in a place unlike any other, chock full of natural beauty, culture, and iconoclastic innovation. We also get paid more, and it more or less balances out.

"you are going to be 45 minutes to an hour away from anyone you want to visit" -- that's called life in any big city.

Taxicabs? Say it with me: Bay Area. Not "San Francisco."

"There isn't one good place in the city to see a show" -- the (world-famous) Fillmore, the Great American Music Hall, Slim's, Bimbo's 365 Club, Bottom of the Hill ... that's just off the top of my head, and only in the City. And why would your favorite band skip a metropolitan area of ~13 million people?

"Weather? Choose between 'brown' or 'wet'" -- you know that is not true. Not even close. SF has some of the most amazing, mild weather in the world.

"Streets? Laden with human feces and garbage. Am I being hyperbolic? No." Actually, you are indeed being hyperbolic. There are places in SF, like every major city, where you will find homeless living. There are places in SF where I would be willing to eat off the sidewalk. And we're talking about the Bay Area, not SF alone.

Re: DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

#55

Post by adrianh »

sutro wrote: post #18

I'm glad you enjoy those wonderful Chicago winters, DHH.

Chicago winters make you appreciate the summers, just as the smaller Chicago Web-dev scene makes you appreciate the startup folks here, just as the lack of web-2.0-echo-chamber-ness makes you pay more attention to Normal People who don't know what Twitter is. Balance is good!

Re: DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

#56

Post by sabat »

tptacek wrote: post #27
gibsonf1 wrote: post #6

DHH talked about lifestyle at Startup camp, and lifestyle is the key reason to want to be in San Francisco. It is simply a great City to live in with the added benefit that almost any escape to the natural world, like skiiing, sailing, etc etc, is immediately available. The downside is some added cost, but the costs here are comparable to Southbay locations and other major Cities. So if you want to build a sustainabl…

Give me a break. I lived in San Francisco for a bunch of years, starting after my first company got bought out --- I've experienced the city both totally flush with cash and living paycheck to paycheck. Allow me to retort: * Public transportation in the Bay Area is a shambles, and, in particular, getting between any two points in the (tiny) city of San Francisco involves interaction with the worst bus system in the c…

Besides the fact that most of your complaints are less than valid, you left out the fact that San Francisco shares, year after year, the status of top restaurant city in the US. (NYC is the other.)

Oh, and there's that wine country about 45 mins. north.

Re: DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

#57

Post by rob »

sabat wrote: post #49

Flamebait. From a guy who's barely ever been here. From a guy who grew up in an ugly place with lousy weather (Denmark) and moved to a place that's remarkably similar to that. DHH generalizes wildly in this rant -- usually an indication of anger and jealousy rather than reason.

What is he angry and jealous of? I'm pretty sure he can afford to move there if he wants to.

Re: DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

#58

Post by jamiequint »

geebee wrote: post #8

San Francisco is an interesting place. I live in SF, and I know a lot of programmers (and other tech workers) who live in SF, but I doubt that more than a third of them actually work in SF proper. Most of us engage in long and soul destroying drives to sterile office buildings in the midst of pedestrian-unfriendly parking lots on the peninsula and in the south bay. And we pay a lot for the privilege. I think that oth…

+1 for portland, its a great place to live

Re: DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

#59

Post by condor »

sabat wrote: post #50
tptacek wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. Why don't you ask FeedBurner?

I think that -- by pointing out that there has been only one successful startup in Chicago (37Signals does not count; it's not really a startup, just a small business) -- that you just underscored the argument for the Bay Area.

if a startup is not a small business, what is it?

Re: DHH: Are you sure you want to be in San Francisco?

#60

Post by tptacek »

sabat wrote: post #56
tptacek wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give me a break. I lived in San Francisco for a bunch of years, starting after my first company got bought out --- I've experienced the city both totally flush with cash and living paycheck to paycheck. Allow me to retort: * Public transportation in the Bay Area is a shambles, and, in particular, getting between any two points in the (tiny) city of San Francisco involves interaction with the worst bus system in the c…

Besides the fact that most of your complaints are less than valid, you left out the fact that San Francisco shares, year after year, the status of top restaurant city in the US. (NYC is the other.) Oh, and there's that wine country about 45 mins. north.

Whatever. You know my theory about fine dining cities? I know you want to. Once you get past a critical mass of high-end restaurants, it stops mattering. Arguments about San Francisco versus Chicago versus New York for restaurants are irrelevant, because unless you have an absurd budget for eating out, you aren't visiting all of them.

So, yes, you have French Laundry (if you count it), and NYC has Per Se, and Chicago has Alinea. Panise vs. Masa vs. Charlie Trotter. If you're a normal person, you're going to run out of places to get 7 courses prix fixe in the Bay Area before I run out of them in Chicago.

Everything else is subjective. You have Mission taquerias. We have Frontera. Yank Sing vs. Arun's. Anything in San Francisco vs. Hot Dougs.

Call whatever city you want "the top restaurant city in the US". Nobody is moving from Chicago or NYC to San Francisco for the food.

Post reply on HN