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Epigenetics: The Evolution Revolution

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Re: Epigenetics: The Evolution Revolution

#31
post #20
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why this is being downvoted, but it's definitely the case that as we learn more about epigenetics, we will need to modify our understanding of evolution substantially, particularly the relationship between epigenetic expression and mutation, in which the latter can "lock in" the changes from the former and lead to more rapid speciation. Exciting stuff.

I think the existing understanding of evolution is still fine. Darwin wrote, 1.More individuals are produced each generation that can survive. 2. Phenotypic variation exists among individuals and the variation is heritable. 3. Those individuals with heritable traits better suited to the environment will survive. 4. When reproductive isolation occurs new species will form. When Darwin proposed this, he didn't have any…

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Re: Epigenetics: The Evolution Revolution

#33
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epigenetics is not "how the genome is read" -- you're describing the normal action of transcription factors. Epigenetics is heritable information that is not encoded in DNA base sequence. Common mechanisms include DNA methylation patterns, histone binding patterns, and histone modifications, all of which can be stably inherited from one cell division to the next, but not necessarily transgenerationally, from parent t…

"Epigenetics is heritable information that is not encoded in DNA base sequence." I agree with this. Combined with the observation that temperature-dependent sex determination occurs within a specific window of time, after which sex cannot be changed for the remainder of the organism's lifetime, I believe it follows logically that somatic cells (certainly those within the sexual organs) must be receiving heritable inf…

The somatic gonad does not have adult stem cells (at least in vertebrates). The cells differentiate in the embryo and just stay differentiated. Nothing really needs to be inherited.

Epigenetics is not "how the genome is read" in any meaningful way. Epigenetics is more like encoding tone of voice transcription factors ought to use when they read the genome. Should they whisper or shout? Epigenetics does not do the actual reading of the genome, or change the underlying data in the base sequence. There are not "various readings" of the genome, no matter what you think.

So you haven't read the paper then. Perhaps you also don't understand the difference between mediates and regulates. KDM6B does not regulate the response to temperature. Temperature regulates something (unknown) that regulates KDM6B, which epigenetically regulates something else (in this case, DMRT1, a transcription factor) which regulates a bunch of other things (mostly unknown) that cause the gonadal soma to become testes or ovaries.

That epigenetics should play a bit part in some developmental process like this is essentially a trivial observation, and treating it as significant betrays a lack of understanding. All the genes in all the cells are wrapped around histones which are modified to make the underlying genes more or less active, all the time. So epigenetics a part of gene regulation, but it's hardly the most powerful or important one. It's like waxing poetic over the importance of uridine metabolism, because without uridine there is no RNA. It's true, but in a totally boring way.

As far as transgenerational epigenetics goes, essentially all of the literature in mammals is missing the key controls to rule out regular genetics. You should regard everything you read about it with extreme skepticism. It's a hot field with a lot of hype and pretty lax standards.

Re: Epigenetics: The Evolution Revolution

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing I don't like about people who deny the strong influence of genes on the individual are they tend to shout racist at anyone trying to study this question. This shouting has made whole areas of human research impossible to study in practice. Does anyone know of anyone who became a racist because they looked at the scientific literature? My experience is people become racist for a variety of reasons and t…

>This shouting has made whole areas of human research impossible to study in practice. Maybe here in the West, but something tells me China isn't going to get caught up in either the ethical or political implications of such research. They'll just do it and quickly operationalize (or weaponize) whatever they discover as fast as possible.

This is just jingoistic scaremongering. These things are not done in the open. Not just China anyone could be doing anything.

Everyone familiar with history knows the consequences of surveillance, most people don't like surveillance but is that stopping anyone?

China is not the one bombing random countries and killing hundreds of thousands of people and setting entire societies back decades. These are crimes against humanity with no accountability and consequences for those involved so where is the ethics and morality? China is not the one who used just discovered nuclear weapons recklessly on a civilian population, not once but twice.

Blanket statement of ethics and morality are meaningless when not consistent with actions on the ground. They merely serve to fabricate a non existent moral high ground whose existence requires a denial and diminishment of one own actions while pointing fingers and demonizing others. Posturing may be fun but ignoring the ethical deterioration in your own society has consequences.

Re: Epigenetics: The Evolution Revolution

#36
"It is as though nature employs epigenesis to make long-lasting adjustments to an individual’s genetic program to suit his or her personal circumstances, much as in Lamarck’s notion of 'striving for perfection.'"

It would be something of a category error to see a rehabilitation of Lamarckism in these discoveries. They show that our previous understanding of information flow across generations was incomplete, but it does not challenge the understanding that evolution occurs through variation and selection.

One fundamental problem for Lamarckism is 'how does the body know what is good for it?' Lamarck used as an example the idea that blacksmiths' sons had stronger arms on account of their fathers' work (I do not know whether he considered their daughters...) Putting aside the question of whether that is actually true, suppose that blacksmiths were also prone to musculoskeletal occupational injury. How is the body to 'know' that the stronger arms are desirable but the injury is not, especially if the former is promoted by the micro-injury of constant hammering?

The rest of the article contains within itself a long list of deleterious consequences of epigenetic inheritance. While the epigenetic mechanisms probably constrain (or perhaps expand the possibilities for) variation, it does not present a fundamental challenge to Darwinian evolution.

Re: Epigenetics: The Evolution Revolution

#37
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This shouting has made whole areas of human research impossible to study in practice. Maybe here in the West, but something tells me China isn't going to get caught up in either the ethical or political implications of such research. They'll just do it and quickly operationalize (or weaponize) whatever they discover as fast as possible.

This is just jingoistic scaremongering. These things are not done in the open. Not just China anyone could be doing anything. Everyone familiar with history knows the consequences of surveillance, most people don't like surveillance but is that stopping anyone? China is not the one bombing random countries and killing hundreds of thousands of people and setting entire societies back decades. These are crimes against…

I'm amazed you think US foreign policy history is relevant here, and your characterization of it is frankly childish, but the Chinese record on human rights is demonstrably bad. It isn't a stretch, at all, to think that the Chinese are not going to too much care about where this research might lead.
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