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Show HN: Vuido builds desktop apps using Vue.js without Electron

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Re: Show HN: Vuido builds desktop apps using Vue.js without Electron

#21

Post by aaron-lebo »

Rjevski wrote: post #19
roryisok wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you speak English when you could be speaking French? Because it's what you know, and lucky for you it's everywhere and you don't need to learn French. I'm making some assumptions about you as a person but you take my point I hope. People use JavaScript over other languages because they already know it and, hey, look, you can use it anywhere. Sure, it might be more efficient to go and learn python or C++ or ass…

But don’t you believe in using the right tool for the job? JavaScript is barely acceptable on the web, but again it’s a necessary evil as you can’t easily use anything else. But why use an inadequate tool on the desktop? The perceived time you save upfront would backfire later on. Now I’m not saying go and spend a year learning another language just to make a side project (by all means use JS or whatever you’re famil…

I don't really think JS is bad. I actually prefer it to most languages.

It's fast, concise, flexible, and has lots of modern features. It has some weak spots, but all languages do. When people are so ideological about the language it tells me they either haven't used it much or they are unrealistic about flaws in other languages.

Re: Show HN: Vuido builds desktop apps using Vue.js without Electron

#22

Post by aaron-lebo »

brolover wrote: post #20
Rjevski wrote: post #14

One question: why would you use the awful clusterfuck that is JavaScript on the desktop where you’ve got the freedom to choose from dozens of lovely languages that actually are a pleasure to use? JS is a necessary evil on the web, but why inflict such pain to yourself when you’re able to use something else?

ES6 (or 7) is a much better language than a bunch. Adding in the types through flow or typescript, and now it's a pragmatist's heaven.

Incredibly pragmatic, which is perhaps the most important thing possible.

an approach that assesses the truth of meaning of theories or beliefs in terms of the success of their practical application

You can have your ideal language, we'll just keep building great stuff in a good enough language.

Re: Show HN: Vuido builds desktop apps using Vue.js without Electron

#23

Post by Rjevski »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #22
brolover wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ES6 (or 7) is a much better language than a bunch. Adding in the types through flow or typescript, and now it's a pragmatist's heaven.

Incredibly pragmatic, which is perhaps the most important thing possible. an approach that assesses the truth of meaning of theories or beliefs in terms of the success of their practical application You can have your ideal language, we'll just keep building great stuff in a good enough language.

> Great stuff

Like what? A chat client that uses 1+ GB of RAM and melts batteries faster than a flamethrower? No thanks!

It almost looks like this Electron/JS trend was started by CPU manufacturers who realised that current CPUs have more than enough power for everyday tasks, and needed a way to create demand for even faster CPUs. I’d say Electron (and JS in general) was pretty effective at that.

Re: Show HN: Vuido builds desktop apps using Vue.js without Electron

#24

Post by mintplant »

Rjevski wrote: post #14

One question: why would you use the awful clusterfuck that is JavaScript on the desktop where you’ve got the freedom to choose from dozens of lovely languages that actually are a pleasure to use? JS is a necessary evil on the web, but why inflict such pain to yourself when you’re able to use something else?

Normally I would agree, but GUI development with Vue is such a lovely experience. It takes advantage of many of the newer JS features to make this possible (automatic data binding via property get/set interception, for example). As a consequence it's hard to imagine providing the same in another, better language.

Re: Show HN: Vuido builds desktop apps using Vue.js without Electron

#26

Post by Rjevski »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #21
Rjevski wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But don’t you believe in using the right tool for the job? JavaScript is barely acceptable on the web, but again it’s a necessary evil as you can’t easily use anything else. But why use an inadequate tool on the desktop? The perceived time you save upfront would backfire later on. Now I’m not saying go and spend a year learning another language just to make a side project (by all means use JS or whatever you’re famil…

I don't really think JS is bad. I actually prefer it to most languages. It's fast, concise, flexible, and has lots of modern features. It has some weak spots, but all languages do. When people are so ideological about the language it tells me they either haven't used it much or they are unrealistic about flaws in other languages.

> haven't used it much

I actually used it, and hated it quite a bit (although ES6 solves most of my gripes with it).

I understand and appreciate the necessity of JS on the web. JS is also the perfect tool for that job as it’s been designed with the web & browsers in mind, closely tied to HTML & CSS, and while it has overheads those are a necessary evil in an environment where it’s commonplace to execute untrusted code.

But it’s however completely inadequate for the desktop. Your users already trust you since they run your binary Electron wrapper, so the “untrusted code” argument goes out the window. You’re basically taking on an extreme overhead (in terms of battery life and RAM usage) for no benefit at all. HTML/CSS is not that great either, IMO native elements provided by the OS deliver a much better UX and actually behave consistently across the entire OS.

Re: Show HN: Vuido builds desktop apps using Vue.js without Electron

#27

Post by giancarlostoro »

roryisok wrote: post #17
Rjevski wrote: post #14

One question: why would you use the awful clusterfuck that is JavaScript on the desktop where you’ve got the freedom to choose from dozens of lovely languages that actually are a pleasure to use? JS is a necessary evil on the web, but why inflict such pain to yourself when you’re able to use something else?

Why do you speak English when you could be speaking French? Because it's what you know, and lucky for you it's everywhere and you don't need to learn French. I'm making some assumptions about you as a person but you take my point I hope. People use JavaScript over other languages because they already know it and, hey, look, you can use it anywhere. Sure, it might be more efficient to go and learn python or C++ or ass…

Exactly. People mock me for using Python and MongoDB at hackathons but I have won my first Hackathon cause I spent my time getting code done and not thinking too hard about it.

Re: Show HN: Vuido builds desktop apps using Vue.js without Electron

#28

Post by roryisok »

Rjevski wrote: post #19
roryisok wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you speak English when you could be speaking French? Because it's what you know, and lucky for you it's everywhere and you don't need to learn French. I'm making some assumptions about you as a person but you take my point I hope. People use JavaScript over other languages because they already know it and, hey, look, you can use it anywhere. Sure, it might be more efficient to go and learn python or C++ or ass…

But don’t you believe in using the right tool for the job? JavaScript is barely acceptable on the web, but again it’s a necessary evil as you can’t easily use anything else. But why use an inadequate tool on the desktop? The perceived time you save upfront would backfire later on. Now I’m not saying go and spend a year learning another language just to make a side project (by all means use JS or whatever you’re famil…

The right tool for the job is very opinionated. Clearly an awful lot of desktop devs think js is the right tool for the job because electron is everywhere and projects like this very one we're commenting on exist.

My opinionated view on "the right tool" comes down to the distinction between foreground and background apps.

I do think electron is not the right tool for the job when it comes to Spotify, because Spotify is something that mostly runs in the background and should be super performant.

On the other hand I use vscode all day every day, and I'm happy for it to use as much ram and cpu as it does because its always in the foreground - it's the main thing I'm using when I use it

Edit: I should add I think we need to find more comparisons to continue this electron debate though. Vscode is always the hero and slack and Spotify are always the villain

Re: Show HN: Vuido builds desktop apps using Vue.js without Electron

#29

Post by akavel »

Rjevski wrote: post #19
roryisok wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you speak English when you could be speaking French? Because it's what you know, and lucky for you it's everywhere and you don't need to learn French. I'm making some assumptions about you as a person but you take my point I hope. People use JavaScript over other languages because they already know it and, hey, look, you can use it anywhere. Sure, it might be more efficient to go and learn python or C++ or ass…

But don’t you believe in using the right tool for the job? JavaScript is barely acceptable on the web, but again it’s a necessary evil as you can’t easily use anything else. But why use an inadequate tool on the desktop? The perceived time you save upfront would backfire later on. Now I’m not saying go and spend a year learning another language just to make a side project (by all means use JS or whatever you’re famil…

I'm there with you being sick of Electron apps on the desktop. The problem is, compared to the JS ecosystem, GUI apps development on desktop with any native technology I know is super bloated, slow and crappy. While I've just started trying to use Elm recently, and the speed of iteration when using it totally amazed me, so that now I cannot longer say that I don't understand why people do that. As much as it pains me.

Re: Show HN: Vuido builds desktop apps using Vue.js without Electron

#30

Post by sandGorgon »

Rjevski wrote: post #14

One question: why would you use the awful clusterfuck that is JavaScript on the desktop where you’ve got the freedom to choose from dozens of lovely languages that actually are a pleasure to use? JS is a necessary evil on the web, but why inflict such pain to yourself when you’re able to use something else?

ES6 an typescript are wonderful languages and have little resemblance to the jquery-esque JavaScript era.

Think C# rather than jquery.

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