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The Stuxnet worm may be the most sophisticated software ever written

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Re: The Stuxnet worm may be the most sophisticated software ever written

#261

So stuxworm is more sophisticated than an OS its written for? Sounds ridiculous.

Maybe because sometimes it can be relatively easy to to write some software, but much harder to find its bugs and write exploits for them? otherwise, why would bugs even exist?

Re: The Stuxnet worm may be the most sophisticated software ever written

#262

Stuxnet changed history. Any "game of chicken" style equilibria is broken if the probability a nuclear actor's command and control drops below 100%. If there is even a 1% chance that when a Big Red Button is pushed the missiles fail to launch the game becomes unwinnable. Simulations of imperfect information in dynamic brinkmanship where both players are known to have advanced cyber capabilities results in a single dr…

Yes, it has the potential to break the MAD equilibrium. It's very ironic to me that offensive technologies do not threaten world peace as much as defensive technologies.

MAD is a local maximum of peace, but only if we define "peace" to include "tense standoff". It appears to be the best we can do in the presence of overwhelmingly powerful offensive capabilities.

Imagine the different "peace" if instead we had overwhelmingly powerful defensive capabilities.

Re: The Stuxnet worm may be the most sophisticated software ever written

#263

I'd argue that Google Search is much more sophisticated than Stuxnet. Windows is much more sophisticated. Linux is more sophisticated than Stuxnet. The list goes on. We tend to ignore the sophistication of things we are familiar with, and hype those that surprise. But that's not a fair measure of anything.

I think Windows and Stuxnet are sophisticated in different ways.

Windows has to cover a huge area and a lot of "known" unknowns and be able to recover (somewhat) reliably. Stuff breaks, you get weird error messages, that driver for your Wi-Fi never really worked right, but at the end of the day you have a computer that works pretty well, and that's quite remarkable. The same is of course true of Linux and other operating systems.

Stuxnet is a hyper-specialized piece of software (malware) that cannot fail or it loses it's purpose. The authors clearly knew they had to have multiple fallbacks for every step of the process, but I find it very impressive that it reached it's end goal successfully and without being discovered. A lot of software (including malware) break because of regular software bugs, environments that differ from the expected, interference by the user, the list goes on. For Stuxnet to have avoided all of those, that is quite sophisticated.

Re: The Stuxnet worm may be the most sophisticated software ever written

#266

I'd argue that Google Search is much more sophisticated than Stuxnet. Windows is much more sophisticated. Linux is more sophisticated than Stuxnet. The list goes on. We tend to ignore the sophistication of things we are familiar with, and hype those that surprise. But that's not a fair measure of anything.

In my view, the sophistication is implied by the breadth of expertise required to put the whole thing together. Google Search and the OS landscape are for sure broad and sophisticated. However, their development was accomplished by computer scientists.

In order for stuxnet to be effective, it was necessary to employ expertise in:

- Uranium enrichment methods and processes

- Capital equipment control systems and their development environments

- Theory of operation of centrifuge machines

- Corporate espionage of some sort

- Organizational management skills that can pull all that together

- and deep understanding of the operating systems referenced above

Re: The Stuxnet worm may be the most sophisticated software ever written

#267

Stuxnet changed history. Any "game of chicken" style equilibria is broken if the probability a nuclear actor's command and control drops below 100%. If there is even a 1% chance that when a Big Red Button is pushed the missiles fail to launch the game becomes unwinnable. Simulations of imperfect information in dynamic brinkmanship where both players are known to have advanced cyber capabilities results in a single dr…

Yes, it has the potential to break the MAD equilibrium. It's very ironic to me that offensive technologies do not threaten world peace as much as defensive technologies.

...as if “world peace” is a thing.

Re: The Stuxnet worm may be the most sophisticated software ever written

#269

I'd argue that Google Search is much more sophisticated than Stuxnet. Windows is much more sophisticated. Linux is more sophisticated than Stuxnet. The list goes on. We tend to ignore the sophistication of things we are familiar with, and hype those that surprise. But that's not a fair measure of anything.

[deleted]

Re: The Stuxnet worm may be the most sophisticated software ever written

#270

I'd argue that Google Search is much more sophisticated than Stuxnet. Windows is much more sophisticated. Linux is more sophisticated than Stuxnet. The list goes on. We tend to ignore the sophistication of things we are familiar with, and hype those that surprise. But that's not a fair measure of anything.

Without any kind of metric for “sophisticated” it’s all subjective anyhow. I like Stuxnet as an example - it’s devious and a true hacker approach, albeit as blackhat as they come.

i think for something to be sophisticated we are looking at how complex it is. this worm does nothing new in that regard (taking advantage of 0days, hiding, covering tracks etc.) it is no more sophisticated than a regular worm. quora is a fucking joke.
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