The Stuxnet worm may be the most sophisticated software ever written • Hacker News Board

Re: The Stuxnet worm may be the most sophisticated software ever written

#111

Post by toong » Fri, May 18, 2018, 1:12 PM UTC

Certhas wrote: post #99

Harvey-Specter wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm having a hard time imagining a virtual WMD that is worse than the instant obliteration of millions of people.

Blackouts. Do what Stuxnet did to the control rooms of a large number of power plants, spinning up the machines to hard, coordinate this attack so it triggers in a large number of places. If you can pull this off for a continental scale, you're looking at potentially months to restore power to everywhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_2015_Ukraine_power_gr...

Without power, logistics & supply lines stop working, no more groceries after a few days, riots and plunderings in the streets a week later...

Re: The Stuxnet worm may be the most sophisticated software ever written

#112

Post by cptskippy » Fri, May 18, 2018, 1:12 PM UTC

baud147258 wrote: post #98

stef25 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A usb drive discreetly dropped in the parking lot, labelled cat memes would probably do the trick

Are cat memes popular in Iran too?

Cat memes transcend cultural boundaries.

Re: The Stuxnet worm may be the most sophisticated software ever written

#113

Post by indescions_2018 » Fri, May 18, 2018, 1:13 PM UTC

Stuxnet changed history. Any "game of chicken" style equilibria is broken if the probability a nuclear actor's command and control drops below 100%. If there is even a 1% chance that when a Big Red Button is pushed the missiles fail to launch the game becomes unwinnable. Simulations of imperfect information in dynamic brinkmanship where both players are known to have advanced cyber capabilities results in a single dreaded endgame: general nuclear exchange.

Thermonuclear Cyberwar

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2836208

We have moved into uncharted domains. And herein lie demons. Past Rules of Engagement universally agreed upon regarding the use of kinetic weapons no longer apply. For wiser heads to prevail in the current global climate, the voice for peace must become the loudest one.

Rules of engagement for cyberspace operations: a view from the USA

https://academic.oup.com/cybersecurity/article/doi/10.1093/c...

Re: The Stuxnet worm may be the most sophisticated software ever written

#114

Post by hsnewman » Fri, May 18, 2018, 1:15 PM UTC

This is pure opinion. I've heard that the code for bitcoin is pretty complex too. But since this opinion, it's all a debate. I kind think the linux kernel or Windows OS might be in the running too.

Re: The Stuxnet worm may be the most sophisticated software ever written

#115

Post by Maybestring » Fri, May 18, 2018, 1:17 PM UTC

Harvey-Specter wrote: post #68

nathanm412 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're quickly heading toward the age of the first Virtual WMD. The implications can be as wide as your imagination, but possibly worse than existing WMDs.

I'm having a hard time imagining a virtual WMD that is worse than the instant obliteration of millions of people.

Virtual weapons are worse when it comes to proliferation. And they are worse when it comes to identifying attackers. Both of these could make them more likely to be used.

Software which say opened the throttle and disabled the brakes on millions of vehicles simultaneously would be in the ballpark for total destruction in a short time. With self-driving cars, the total destruction can be optimized, hunting down pedestrians and hitting vulnerable infrastructure.

Re: The Stuxnet worm may be the most sophisticated software ever written

#116

Post by cptskippy » Fri, May 18, 2018, 1:18 PM UTC

> This driver was digitally signed by Realtek, which means that the authors of the worm were somehow able to break into the most secure location in a huge Taiwanese company, and steal the most secret key that this company owns, without Realtek finding out about it.

> Later, whoever wrote that driver started signing it with secret keys from JMicron, another big Taiwanese company. Yet again, the authors had to figure out how to break into the most secure location in that company and steal the most secure key that that company owns, without JMicron finding out about it.

Oh come on... "most secure location"? I'd wager it would be harder to break into the janitor's closet and steal his toilet paper supply than it would be to get those signing certs. If this was most companies it was stored on a public file share used by software engineers or in an open source control repository. They either got someone hired as a contractor or bribed an engineer they found on LinkedIn a couple thousand dollars.

Re: The Stuxnet worm may be the most sophisticated software ever written

#117

Post by ralphhughes » Fri, May 18, 2018, 1:18 PM UTC

Yajirobe wrote: post #56

I have a question. Since the worm travels from USB to USB, does that mean that it infected thousands (or more) of regular people USBs but did nothing, until it found itself in a purity facility? Or was the worm somehow directly sent (physically or digitally) to the facility?

Yes. At the time I was a contractor in southern Azerbaijan (borders Iran) and our pendrives were infected.

Re: The Stuxnet worm may be the most sophisticated software ever written

#118

Post by Y_Y » Fri, May 18, 2018, 1:19 PM UTC

realworldview wrote: post #76

_When that USB drive is inserted into a Windows PC, without the user knowing it, that worm will quietly run itself, and copy itself to that PC._ Truly magical. Anthropomorphism and personification help continue the myth of sentient, usually evil, software. Whilst scaring the heebie jeebies out of everyone.

>"run itself"

I find that misconception worse!

Re: The Stuxnet worm may be the most sophisticated software ever written

#119

Post by hobofan » Fri, May 18, 2018, 1:19 PM UTC

bflesch wrote: post #23

Would it have been easier or harder to implement Stuxnet if the target networks were running some sort of linux? Or if it would've been a mac-only facility? I'm curious.

As the other comments point out, any OS will have bugs.

But it is widely believed that Stuxnet was initiated from the US, and Microsoft is a US company, so...

Re: The Stuxnet worm may be the most sophisticated software ever written

#120

Post by zer0gravity » Fri, May 18, 2018, 1:21 PM UTC

If you come to think at it, this "worm" is really a form of life, with a certain degree of intelligence, I might add.

Just like a biological virus, it replicates itself, it hijacks a pretty secure environment, like a cell, and uses it, first to replicate even more, and second, to alter its behaviour in order to accomplish its "goals", meaning deeply hidden instructions that only activate, and this is amazing, only in certain conditions, just how a certain piece of DNA is only activated in certain conditions in the cell.

The intelligent part, in a more humane uderstanding of the term, comes when it is able to act and update in a distributed fashion orchestrated by a central command and control.

This is not just a sophisticated form of software. This is a sophisticated form of life, albeit a distructive one.