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GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

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Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#771

Post by isostatic »

sunir wrote: post #645
cyphar wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because by default any web site has, in the past, been open to people from any country that doesn't censor the web. This has never been true since the internet was international. You have always had to comply with laws of countries you interact with, it's just that most people who ran internet businesses decided to ignore the law (just try hosting some copyright or patent infringing content on the internet and see…

That is not true. You do not need to comply with any country’s laws except the one you reside in, except for treaties by your home country that say otherwise or your desire to travel abroad. Just think of what China would do to the Internet if it could.

Dmitry Sklyarov and Kim Dot Com would like a word

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#772

Post by mpweiher »

fcbrooklyn wrote: post #461
pvg wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike your examples, GDPR bans neither messenger apps nor Monal in particular.

Indeed. And the prohibition on raw milk does not ban cheese. Many cheeses from France are still available, because they do not involve raw milk. The EU has passed a law, perhaps it is a worthwhile law. This is one of the consequences. The ban on raw milk in cheese making exists thanks to (presumably) the best intentions, and the end result is that there are many cheeses I would like to buy, that I cannot. An American…

> the prohibition on raw milk does not ban cheese.

It bans "raw-milk cheese", which is a distinct kind of product, not one way of many to make a particular product ("cheese"). If you ban raw milk, you ban certain types of product entirely, and there is no workaround.

It would be like saying a prohibition on planes does not ban automobiles, and after all, both are a kind of vehicle. True, but not really relevant.

Back to the GDPR case, it's closer to a producer of pasteurized-milk-cheese saying they are going to get out of the cheese business altogether because of the ban on raw-milk-cheese, and labeling their cheese as such and documenting however briefly that the cheese is made out of pasteurized milk is just too much effort, and they are afraid of being sued by people claiming it is raw-milk-cheese.

Whatever.

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#773

Post by [deleted] »

jashmatthews wrote: post #749
raverbashing wrote: post #736

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no "UK Interpretation", this is the whole point of the EU. The rules apply across the block.

EU law doesn't work like that. Each country has to pass their own local law to enforce the GDPR. For the UK that was the Data Protection Bill 2017.

[deleted]

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#774

Post by pgeorgi »

kingofhdds wrote: post #767
Angostura wrote: post #687

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respect his right to do whatever he would like with his own hobby, but we should be clear that the guy is stating he doesn’t have the resources, based on a series of misunderstandings. So, for example, he says he is required to appoint a DPO. The U.K. Information Commissioner has this to say: >Do we need to appoint a Data Protection Officer? A> Under the GDPR, you must appoint a DPO if: > you are a public authority…

And "large scale" means how many records in DB? How many users? Or records per day?

Monal is an XMPP client running on user's iOS devices. Is that person even running an XMPP server for those users?

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#775

Post by klmr »

s73v3r_ wrote: post #375
ucaetano wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

issue isn't the business model, is the size. For a large company, handling GDPR is trivial. For a startup or small company, the cost is prohibitively high. I'm not arguing for or against it, just pointing that the resulting unintended consequence is protecting large companies. Exactly the opposite of the original intent.

People keep saying this, but I flat out don't believe it.

Suit yourself. But as mentioned elsewhere, the equivalent of GDPR has been law in Germany for over a decade, and small businesses have had no problem complying.

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#776

Post by antr »

repolfx wrote: post #741
robin_reala wrote: post #708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The threat of being suspended from the EU and the (potential) economic damage from that? You can’t be a dictatorship and keep the same rights in the union, as per the Copenhagen criteria and Article 7. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen_criteria#Political_... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_7_of_the_Treaty_on_Eur...

Article 7 doesn't seem to mean anything does it? Spain just crushed a political movement trying to organise a referendum through force. It arrested the leaders and the rest of the EU is helping them catch the ones that fled. They call it a rebellion and state that Catalonia can never be independent. Not an Article 7 violation, apparently. According to the EU it's merely an internal matter. Hungary elects a government…

You are trying to justify a coup. A coup by a minority of the population that has a distorted view of history as a result of years of astroturfing.

So if applying the law is "crushing a political movement", let's crush it all the way. Nobody is above the law.

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#777

Post by optimalKEK »

tathougies wrote: post #654
optimalKEK wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The high-tech laws and regulations of the EU are a bit more sophisticated than in the US so it may take some time for the rest of the world to catch on.

Well, if anything, Europe has a history of labeling authoritarians as progressives. Whether that's something to be proud of is something history will decide.

Authoritarianism is the only way to protect the people from runaway capitalism. Juncker is a good leader - I never understood why Americans/Anglos think that "Authoritarianism = BAD".

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#778

Post by blackbrokkoli »

chx wrote: post #601

Honestly, most small USA businesses take one look at "Up to €20 million, or 4% annual global turnover – whichever is higher." and just run. There's no point in even trying to salvage the situation. > For the 3.7 million small businesses with 1 to 4 employees, the Census Bureau figures show average annual sales in 2007 were $387,200. Given that, who wants to risk a 20M fine? All this advice in this thread to do this,…

Please actually read the law before you try to argue with “as a...“. The fine scales with the violation and it does -surprise- not mean that arbitrary Github projects will have to pay 20m€...

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#779

Post by FranzFerdiNaN »

jonathanstrange wrote: post #759
jacquesm wrote: post #273

This is a ridiculous over-reaction based on an extremely shallow interpretation of the GDPR. If you are running a small business and you feel that you won't be able to operate your business because of the GDPR consider all those other laws that you have to be in compliance with as well. If that's your attitude towards legal compliance then you should probably shut your business down completely rather than to hope tha…

I also don't understand this reaction, because the guy is the developer of a chat program. It seems that if you encrypt communications and user data and do not sell personal data to third parties, then you comply with the GDPR. I don't see where those bureaucratic hoops come into play this developer is bemoaning.

Worst case is he really is selling personal data to third parties, and does not want to risk any fines from the EU because of it.

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#780

Post by pgeorgi »

sunir wrote: post #640
abiox wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you seem to suggest that you can (for example) sell/distribute canadian alcohol in saudi arabia, even though it's illegal there. do you really think that's accurate? every country has the right to enforce it's own laws within it's own borders. you don't get a pass to do whatever you please in another country without their permission. edit: i noticed "my business exists only in Canada" if you mean to say you aren't do…

Yes. You can sell alcohol to Saudi Arabians from Canada. You cannot ship to Saudi Arabia. The buyer may pick up in another location where alcohol is legal including in person in Canada. What they do with the alcohol once in their possession is their business.

That's why the GDPR talks about residents, not citizens.
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