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Goodbye (Crummy) CAPTCHAs. Hello Ad Dollars?

mediamemo.allthingsd.com

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Re: Goodbye (Crummy) CAPTCHAs. Hello Ad Dollars?

#42
post #32
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, most modern capchas are not solved by bots, but by people in third world countries solving them for pennies. The current going rate is about $1/1000 and there are easy to use captcha solving APIs for any platform. capcha has long provided an illusion of security, nothing more. Any and all captchas will be broken.

Before adding captchas to my stupid personal blog, Akismet was catching ~300 attempted spams a day, and I was manually flagging ~2 a day. Then I installed reCaptcha, and now Akismet catches ~10 a month, and I've had to manually flag zero. I'll take that illusion, thanks.

That's one datapoint. The counterpoint is the thousands of forum owners who mistakenly relied on captcha to prevent spam at the expense of other antispam measures, like GeoIP.

Re: Goodbye (Crummy) CAPTCHAs. Hello Ad Dollars?

#43
post #42
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before adding captchas to my stupid personal blog, Akismet was catching ~300 attempted spams a day, and I was manually flagging ~2 a day. Then I installed reCaptcha, and now Akismet catches ~10 a month, and I've had to manually flag zero. I'll take that illusion, thanks.

That's one datapoint. The counterpoint is the thousands of forum owners who mistakenly relied on captcha to prevent spam at the expense of other antispam measures, like GeoIP.

I'm not saying captchas are a magic one-step solution to end all spam (hence the mention of Akismet). I'm just disputing the idea that they are "nothing more" than illusory security. Sure, they can be turked, and sure, if someone relies only on captchas they'll probably eventually get screwed. But they do provide some benefit as part of a complete approach against spam, in that they raise the cost of a spam attempt up from zero. Unless you have meaningful levels of traffic, the vast majority of spammers aren't going to bother with you if it costs anything at all to hit you.

Re: Goodbye (Crummy) CAPTCHAs. Hello Ad Dollars?

#44
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have no idea what you're talking about. > show a picture of an animal or a shape and ask what it is, Ok, so let's say you come up with pictures of 20 different animals. A spam script that picks the same answer every time will have a 5% success rate. > or even just ask a simple math problem or riddle in writing. Computers are way better at solving most math problems than people.

Please read my post. Specifically the second paragraph where exactly this issue is addressed.

Still doesn't make sense.

If you display 10 random animals (or shapes), and ask a user to pick the right one, a dumb spam script would have a 10% success rate.

If you display one image of an animal and give 10 possible answers, a dumb spam script would have a 10% success rate.

Re: Goodbye (Crummy) CAPTCHAs. Hello Ad Dollars?

#45
post #32
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, most modern capchas are not solved by bots, but by people in third world countries solving them for pennies. The current going rate is about $1/1000 and there are easy to use captcha solving APIs for any platform. capcha has long provided an illusion of security, nothing more. Any and all captchas will be broken.

Before adding captchas to my stupid personal blog, Akismet was catching ~300 attempted spams a day, and I was manually flagging ~2 a day. Then I installed reCaptcha, and now Akismet catches ~10 a month, and I've had to manually flag zero. I'll take that illusion, thanks.

ok, but how many comments are you losing because people don't want to fill out a captcha?

i've used defensio.com for filtering comments on my site with no captcha and rarely ever get a false positive or negative. false negatives are easy to spot, and users can manually override false positives by supplying an email address to get a confirmation link (which gets fed back to defensio as a false positive once clicked).

Re: Goodbye (Crummy) CAPTCHAs. Hello Ad Dollars?

#46
I had a similar idea a few years ago. I thought my idea was original but when I did my research, several companies have already thought of it.

Microsoft http://www.internetnews.com/webcontent/article.php/3836421/M...

Yahoo http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20090012855

Ad Captcher http://adcaptcher.com/

Re: Goodbye (Crummy) CAPTCHAs. Hello Ad Dollars?

#47
post #15

I spent a minute trying but no, I cannot think of anything that would make me go 'well fuck you' and go elsewhere faster then being expected to type out ad copy like a school child.

and yet you will gladly type randomized and difficult to read letters or words? This is actually attempting to solve two problems at once, and in some ways it could be more interesting to the user if the ads are well targetted. Why not help the site owner make a bit of $$??? are you really afraid that typing in a bit of ad copy is going to turn you into a mindless drone

You've got the nail on the head. Capatcha publishing sites are already weeding out the idiots who will jump through hoops to join and blog comment argument or whatever it is - now they can sell the idiots to the highest bidder. Even if they get more spam, the idiot just earnt them cold hard cash in exchange for the spam, and you can still go back to solving spam the non-capatcha way.

It's evil, but evil in a kind of clinically beautiful way. I'd say it stands a good chance of working in the short term too - like punch they monkey ads made a lot of money for some people back in the day

Re: Goodbye (Crummy) CAPTCHAs. Hello Ad Dollars?

#48
post #9

Damn, that is both smart and evil (because the user can't ignore these kind of ads). What can we do to make sure this product doesn't catch on?

If you don't want them to catch on, refuse to sign up to any service that uses them. Simple.

In the long term, ugly, hard to use websites will loose. It can be a very long term in some cases. Just be patient.

Re: Goodbye (Crummy) CAPTCHAs. Hello Ad Dollars?

#49
post #45
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before adding captchas to my stupid personal blog, Akismet was catching ~300 attempted spams a day, and I was manually flagging ~2 a day. Then I installed reCaptcha, and now Akismet catches ~10 a month, and I've had to manually flag zero. I'll take that illusion, thanks.

ok, but how many comments are you losing because people don't want to fill out a captcha? i've used defensio.com for filtering comments on my site with no captcha and rarely ever get a false positive or negative. false negatives are easy to spot, and users can manually override false positives by supplying an email address to get a confirmation link (which gets fed back to defensio as a false positive once clicked).

It's a tradeoff, sure. In my case, I'm perfectly happy to trade a few comments from people who don't want to deal with a captcha for never having to manually deal with spam. YMMV.
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