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GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

monal.im

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Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#551

Post by orangecat »

enedil wrote: post #446
jacquesm wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that it is open source does not mean it isn't a business. And yes, he has saved himself the time and the effort of dealing with the GDPR, has also managed to position himself as someone who pays lipservice to privacy but who does not care to actually be compliant with privacy legislation when it matters. I wouldn't want my data in his hands after that anyway (not that that would ever happen because I don't h…

From my POV, he definitely positioned himself as someone that doesn't give a damn about user privacy

That's ridiculous, and the same non-logic as "anyone who declines to let the police search their home without a warrant is trying to hide something illegal". In both cases there is no upside and a chance of a large downside, even when you're completely innocent.

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#552

Post by DanBC »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #505
DanBC wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if the reason is regulatory burden, no matter how onerous, No, what we're saying is OP can't complain about the burden of this onerous regulation when the fact is that almost none of it is relevant to OP and he'll have to make only minor changes to be compliant. Several of the claims OP made are flat wrong and it's trivial to show they're wrong by simple web searches.

There are hundreds of comments here on this thread arguing about all of those points and what the law even says. The GDPR is a complete joke.

But most of the argument is between fucking idiots who have no clue what the law actually says, and people who do know what the law says.

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#553

Post by lovich »

jimmaswell wrote: post #504
lovich wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with that at all. In the 2000s I frequently could find new and useful websites for learning on every Google search. Now I have to wade through hundreds of sites that only host clickbait or repackage other sites content so they can deliver ads that end up containing malware. The internet has given me a commodity in the form of constant good data that is unequivocally an improvement, but the signal to noi…

I'm not seeing exactly where you disagree there. There's more bad information now, and a higher ratio of bad to good, but I'm saying despite that, there's still more good than there used to be, and probably a higher rate of good being added. For example, with small numbers for the argument's sake, say in 2000 there were 5 good webpages and 4 bad webpages added to the internet every day. Now there are 10 good webpages…

I'd agree that the total amount of good information has increased but if bad infi is being added at an accelerating rate compared to good info then I wouldn't say the rate of good information is increasing in anything but the most technical sense.

For all intents and purposes the information doesn't exist if you can't find it, you can only find information as a certain rate, and a larger and larger chunk of that information bandwidth every day is bad information. The practical result is that the rate of good information someone has access to has decreased even if the total system has a nominally higher rate

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#554

Post by tathougies »

jacquesm wrote: post #410
tathougies wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comment I responded to cited environmental regulation. These are oftentimes costly to implement. All regulation costs money to implement. Even if each regulation by itself is cheap, these things add up -- it's death by a thousand cuts.

> These are oftentimes costly to implement. Yes, but then again: if you don't implement them society as a whole will end up holding the bag. Polluter pays is a very good principle. > All regulation costs money to implement. Yes. But that's called the cost of doing business. And most software based businesses have insane margins anyway because of their ability to scale. > Even if each regulation by itself is cheap, th…

I'm not sure what it is you are arguing about. I am in 100% agreement that regulation is necessary for a functioning society. However, the natural result of introducing new regulation is that some businesses will choose to leave the market. This is the cost of doing business. If a society can bear the loss of the business from the market, then things are good. That's about all there is to it.

> Another way of looking at it is that it levels the playing field between those that ride roughshot over their users rights and those that try to be nice.

Neither of those viewpoints are in opposition. You can both believe that more regulation kills some businesses through a 'death by a thousand cuts' and that these regulations level the playing field.

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#555

Post by DanBC »

zerostar07 wrote: post #527
DanBC wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you need to implement opt ins, No. This is the myth that "consent is always required". There are several justifications for processing personal data, and consent is just one of them. There are others. https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-da...

First, notice how things like legitimate interests are not narrowly defined and left up to the DPA to judge. Which makes it hard to know whether you even need consent or not. Second, this is ICO, the British regulator. There are 28 of them one in each country and they won't always agree, so the application of GDPR policies can vary.

But, again, if you're not compliant they'll just write a letter telling you this and asking you to come into compliance.

At that point you can check your understanding of the law and what you're doing and write back letting them know why you think you're in compliance; or you can change your process; or you can take it to court.

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#556

Post by lovich »

jimmaswell wrote: post #374
lovich wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy shit man, did you come right out of "Atlas Shrugged"? This isnt even users feelings, this is data that can a:have monetary value and b:can be plain wrong and damage a user. Do you think that merely by observing data you have right to it? Do you not believe in any IP law? If you agree with any type of IP law then you are just being hypocritical by insisting that webmasters get to take and use whatever data they c…

>Do you think that merely by observing data you have right to it? Yes, with some exceptions for actual copyright and the like. >Do you not believe in any IP law? IP law, yes, but I don't feel a user's entries into a website automatically qualify as IP owned by the user. The terms of many websites actually say that whatever you upload to them is owned by the website, unless a prior IP applied to it. I've only ever hea…

IP law is not a natural right. It's been encoded into existence by laws. The GDPR is encoding new rights into law in regard with personal data.

I don't see a way to declare one bad and not the other unless you're just saying that new things are bad.

Additionally the terms of websites can say whatever they want but it doesn't mean they are legally defensible. I could put into my terms "by finishing this sentence you agree to be enslaved by Lovich LLC" but that doesn't make it happen

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#557

Post by [deleted] »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #519
DanBC wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DPO has been thoroughly refuted in this thread. He doesn't need a DPO; if he wants to hire a DPO that can be him.

This is the furthest thing from true, like almost every single question about this terrible law. Vague law + faceless bureaucracies + universal application + crippling penalties...sounds like a brilliant combo to destroy people’s lives.

[deleted]

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#558

Post by mikekchar »

zerostar07 wrote: post #527
DanBC wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you need to implement opt ins, No. This is the myth that "consent is always required". There are several justifications for processing personal data, and consent is just one of them. There are others. https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-da...

First, notice how things like legitimate interests are not narrowly defined and left up to the DPA to judge. Which makes it hard to know whether you even need consent or not. Second, this is ICO, the British regulator. There are 28 of them one in each country and they won't always agree, so the application of GDPR policies can vary.

Legitimate interest definition is almost exactly the same as the existing laws on handling private information. If you want to complain about it, don't complain about the GDPR. If you've been handling private information for EU customers and have been complying with the law, then there is practically nothing for you to do.

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#559

Post by leereeves »

cyphar wrote: post #540
leereeves wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fundamental properties of doing business overseas have changed. What used to be a prohibitively expensive enterprise is now within the reach of everyone. And the cost of regulation, which used to be negligible compared to the cost of the enterprise itself, has now become a significant barrier for small businesses.

The costs of compliance are not a fundamental property of doing international business (after all, governments can change the cost of compliance or make it cost nothing). The fundamental properties I was referring to are that you are transacting with another nation state's people, and you have no fundamental right to do business with them unless that other nation grants you permission. Just because it is easier to do…

It is a departure from the way things have always been online.

The EU can certainly demand that web creators jump through hoops, but then they can hardly complain if creators outside the EU decide that interacting with the EU isn't worth the trouble.

Re: GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU

#560

Post by jacquesm »

tathougies wrote: post #554
jacquesm wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These are oftentimes costly to implement. Yes, but then again: if you don't implement them society as a whole will end up holding the bag. Polluter pays is a very good principle. > All regulation costs money to implement. Yes. But that's called the cost of doing business. And most software based businesses have insane margins anyway because of their ability to scale. > Even if each regulation by itself is cheap, th…

I'm not sure what it is you are arguing about. I am in 100% agreement that regulation is necessary for a functioning society. However, the natural result of introducing new regulation is that some businesses will choose to leave the market. This is the cost of doing business. If a society can bear the loss of the business from the market, then things are good. That's about all there is to it. > Another way of looking…

I'm sure such businesses exist. But this isn't one of them, the article writer is leaving his EU users for reasons all his own, as in: he made them up.
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