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Too Clever by Half

epsilontheory.com

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Re: Too Clever by Half

#231

Post by dibujante »

lostcolony wrote: post #112
mcv wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. Once I figured out that I didn't really have to do any homework in high school, and wasn't even required to do so in university, I was doomed. I'm now trying to teach my son that just learning to do the work, even if it's boring, is the real skill you need. But he's too focused on winning every mini-game.

Maybe try to figure out how to make the work fun? Or, try and instill a goal less of "getting the grade" and more "attain mastery of the subject"? I would have been burnt in college, except I got to homeschool the last few years of high school. During that time I took CLEP tests. They were pretty easy for the most part, but they required I actually do the reading and prepare for them. That helped, since in school I j…

Making work fun is nice, but what really improved my effectiveness was cultivating the ability to do work that wasn't fun, but valuable. I think it depends on your strategy. I will always be able to accomplish what I need to now, but since I'm not passionate, I probably will never be brilliant.

Re: Too Clever by Half

#232

Post by dibujante »

blattimwind wrote: post #182
pmoriarty wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Schools are really failing their students by not helping them realize just how difficult university and "real life" can be.

Actually university is fairly easy if you seize the learning opportunities that courses give you; many students attend neither lectures nor tutorials/exercises nor tutoriae and then complain how difficult it is to pass the exam . This still happens even though older semesters will tell any freshmen that they need to attend courses and do exercises to make it. What kinda works are mandatory exercises.

Hm, maybe. I attended all of my courses because that got me straight-As in high school. I was then blindsided by needing to study for anything ever. So I was engaged, as far as I knew - but I didn't know how unengaged I was.

Re: Too Clever by Half

#233

Post by FuckOffNeemo »

willis77 wrote: post #135
FuckOffNeemo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: I'll be copy pasta'ing this comment to every top level comment about animal abuse here. Shock collars can be used for abuse. But fuck, they can do so much good. = = = = = I'm happy to see you down voted here. I have had to employ shock collars for foster dogs who were capable of jumping 10 feet fences in the past and these things work a damn charm. They were the last option available to me after trying every ot…

Any dog ever would gladly trade a few zaps for a wide open place to explore outside. Cruelty is depriving dogs of exercise and outdoor time and stimulation and the chance to run, not invisible fences.

My anecdata shows one amongst 4 dogs who I used a shock collar on wanted to get outside regardless. And he was aptly named Loki for a reason. So no, not 'any dog', not by a large stretch.

You're making assumptions that I didn't exercise or allow my dog(s) outdoor time. Wether it was daily visits to the dog park or visits to the beach or the hinterland on the weekend. You're wrong to assume that the dogs whether adopted or fostered where ever deprived of anything. Shock collars are barbaric but they are means to an end, and an effective one once all options are exhausted.

Plus the whole, let your dogs roam free in a country like Australia would come at a significant cost to the local wildlife where wild dogs and cats are pests and not all of us live on farms, I'm not sure what you would have suggested for the dogs under my care. Or if your opinion here is almost entirely biased?

Re: Too Clever by Half

#234

Post by Ngunyan »

jjoonathan wrote: post #208
uhhhhhhh wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing his point here. Yes, those of us that question and break rules can optimize for what is actually desired vs what is 'proscribed' and have better outcomes. But many/most people rather just follow the rules/directions in the first place rather than break the rules or attempt to find optimal ways around them.

Riiiight, which is why many/most people drive the speed limit.

And people stop at red lights even if the intersection is open with no cars on intersecting roads or no turning cars.

Re: Too Clever by Half

#235

Post by jacobolus »

acjohnson55 wrote: post #209
jacobolus wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the rule makers in high schools are sometimes (often?) incredibly petty people with a very poor understanding of human psychology and communication, not tremendously much empathy for the students, and very little personal consequence when they make a mistake even if that has drastic consequences for the student (and as a result little time spent introspecting about their mistakes). I never got in…

Having been both a teacher and a student who chafed under the rules, I'd suggest that it's not quite that stark. The rule makers are people trying to maintain a learning environment that works for everybody under their care to make progress. You have to make split-second decisions to keep the dynamic productive, and there's not a lot of margin for error. In a perfect world, you'd have time to negotiate solutions with…

There are many amazing teachers and school administrators, and many who are just muddling through doing their best every day. There are also some sadistic jerks, and some who are incredibly bad at communication and problem solving and controlling their own emotions, especially among the lower levels of the administrative staff.

I can understand that dealing with scores of angsty teenagers every day, and especially getting stuck with resolving all of the most intractable disputes, can be trying for even the most patient person. But there are some administrators who escalate every situation brought their direction into an aggressive pissing match. As if the reason some of them stuck with the job is that exercising control over other humans (in however petty or counterproductive a manner) makes them feel powerful.

Re: Too Clever by Half

#236

Post by bachbach »

> I’d bet it’s happening with humans, too, but that’s just an observation for another day.

Ho Ho!

Tell me more brother. I am curious.

This links up with David Krakauer's ideas I'll bet.

Re: Too Clever by Half

#237

Post by bachbach »

80386 wrote: post #43

When I was in school, there were the people who seemed smart and the people who seemed like they worked hard. The people who seemed smart won the minigames. They got good grades with little effort. But somehow, they ended up with no institutional support -- in fact, the school hated them. Eventually one of the teachers (who was visibly insecure about her own intelligence and competence) cooked up a nonsense pretext t…

The education system prioritizes the average, the mean, mediocrity. It's a political aim I believe - I expect without our 'schools' society would look completely different - the spread of outcomes much wider.

Re: Too Clever by Half

#238

Post by bachbach »

leetcrew wrote: post #155
phendrenad2 wrote: post #118

I've long had the suspicion that in domesticating animals, we've dumbed them down severely. And I sometimes wonder if humans were smarter before civilization replaced evolution as the driving factor for intelligence.

> And I sometimes wonder if humans were smarter before civilization replaced evolution as the driving factor for intelligence. this is an odd proposition. evolution has not been replaced; rather, the evolutionary pressures have changed. in any case, civilization is not much more than 10,000 years old, which is pretty short in evolutionary timescales. and although we employ some measures (ie social services) to preven…

This:

> it seems like long term strategic thought is more important than ever

is true for the minority only.

Of course any description of what's happening and what can be done to prevent it is to the right of the Overton Window and is thus illegal to discuss on this forum.

Re: Too Clever by Half

#239

Post by Retra »

dibujante wrote: post #232
blattimwind wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually university is fairly easy if you seize the learning opportunities that courses give you; many students attend neither lectures nor tutorials/exercises nor tutoriae and then complain how difficult it is to pass the exam . This still happens even though older semesters will tell any freshmen that they need to attend courses and do exercises to make it. What kinda works are mandatory exercises.

Hm, maybe. I attended all of my courses because that got me straight-As in high school. I was then blindsided by needing to study for anything ever. So I was engaged, as far as I knew - but I didn't know how unengaged I was.

This is why I think people need to work and grow up a bit between high school and university. Figure out why you want to go before you commit to it.

I was in the military for 4 years between them (and I was not a good student before), but I decided to go to university specifically to learn something that interested me. And it was sad seeing my peers waste their time doing the same stupid crap I'd outgrown and become bored of in the military. (At least there I wasn't expected to learn anything hard.)

Re: Too Clever by Half

#240

Post by jschwartzi »

symkat wrote: post #207
jschwartzi wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had one company so far ask me for transcripts, and this was after I had been working for several years. That should have been a huge red flag.

What did they want your transcripts for?

I have absolutely no idea. If it helps, that company also wouldn't hire one of my best interns without him taking some programming language courses. He had a 4-year degree, too. They also didn't want to hire one of my other good interns into an embedded role despite that being what she went to school for, and despite her having the aptitude for it. They wanted to hire her into SDET instead. I don't believe she took the job.
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