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US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

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Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#201

Post by jandrese »

rubicon33 wrote: post #95
mieseratte wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hope we can move to a much more sensible immigration system, similar to Canada's, for example. We have a decent immigration system in terms of getting the right kinds of advanced folks. The problem is we are also unwilling to do what needs to be done to stem the tide of unskilled illegal labor that flows into the nation.

The biggest counter argument I hear, regularly, is that the "tide" of illegal labor you speak of is NECESSARY. Who will pick strawberries? Who will clean your hotel room? Etc. It's the classic who will do "X" dirty job argument.

Kicking people out because there might be a robot to take their job in the future seems like putting the cart in front of the horse.

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#202

Post by drspacemonkey »

tathougies wrote: post #145
xevb3k wrote: post #25

This is something that seems to happen in most countries when they reach a certain stage of development (see Japan, Korea). I think it related to the general availability of contraception and that the work involved in caring for children has increased, while the number of carers has decreased. The trend toward migration means grandparents are often not nearby to help care for kids. This coupled with the fact that in…

> fathers often still don’t involve themselves in childcare. Are people really living in marriages where the husband does nothing? This is a genuine question. My family is Indian, and I grew up in America, but from what I remember, my mom and dad spent most of their time taking care of my brother and I, whether that be by cooking, paying bills, cleaning the house, taking care of the car, driving us around, etc. Our g…

Yes. A friend of mine is very much an uninvolved father. His wife handles all the child-rearing and housekeeping, while he plays videogames, often while drinking. I've mentioned to him that he should probably be more involved, but it's not my place or responsibility to tell him he's failing as a husband and father. In his defence, he's still a better father than his own father ever was, but that's not exactly a high bar, and he knows it.

Frankly, I don't know why his wife puts up with him.

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#203

Post by gowld »

panic wrote: post #107
Karishma1234 wrote: post #36

Not true at all. Turns out that the poor people who actually cant afford to have kids are having more kids. Hispanic and Black growth is much higher than whites and asians. Asians with the highest income level have lowest birth rate. Given that it is mostly whites who have been leading in STEM there is a high chance that US will lose its competitive advantage in these fields.

> Given that it is mostly whites who have been leading in STEM there is a high chance that US will lose its competitive advantage in these fields. How would the color of someone's skin affect their skills in these fields?

The owners of leading tech companies might not want to hire non-whites?

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#204

Post by gowld »

sp527 wrote: post #89
confuseddesi wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general, the richer someone is, the less likely they are to have as many children. See https://www.economist.com/node/21561112 .

I have to wonder if there's a dip around the upper middle/lower upper who, because of price discrimination on college costs and such must still be conservative, that then reverses course for the mid to upper upper, who have wealth in excess of any reasonable pattern of consumption and certainly more than enough to raise many children. I know that my plan is two max at the moment strictly because total cost per head i…

People who have a lot of money have a lot more fun entertaining themselves without leaning on the emotional network of a family. People with less money rely on their family and community for entertainment. So I'd expect wealthy "jet setters" to not have many children.

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#205

Post by d1zzy »

spookthesunset wrote: post #134
maxk42 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the poor are having more children because they feel like they have less to lose? I desperately want to have kids and my girlfriend is on board, but she makes next to nothing and I make quite a lot of money. I tried an online calculator and if things go awry between us, I'll be paying her roughly a quarter of my post-tax income for the next two decades here in California. That's just too big a gamble for m…

Sounds more like you have a relationship problem than a financial problem.... if you are worried about things going south between you and your partner you have bigger issues to work out than having kids. Also, you'd be insane not to get married before having kids. It's a legal contract between you and your partner that kinda comes in handy if you get disabled, die, etc...

Huh? Not worrying about something that could go wrong is just blissful ignorance. It's a very valid concern that should be accounted for in your big life decisions, you can't just hope for everything to go well because it almost never does so you should consider the consequences when it doesn't and make an informed decision if the costs/risk for that to happen are worth the hassle.

I've been together with my wife for almost 20 years now and I still make decisions where I consider "what would happen if my partner would die/leave me/etc". And one good thing of being in a long relationship with someone is that these things can be discussed transparently among ourselves, otherwise you wouldn't be able to discuss simple issues like life insurance.

And yes, getting married gives implicit legal protections and a lot of those legal protections are all about "what would happen if" scenarios...

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#206

Post by xevb3k »

tathougies wrote: post #145
xevb3k wrote: post #25

This is something that seems to happen in most countries when they reach a certain stage of development (see Japan, Korea). I think it related to the general availability of contraception and that the work involved in caring for children has increased, while the number of carers has decreased. The trend toward migration means grandparents are often not nearby to help care for kids. This coupled with the fact that in…

> fathers often still don’t involve themselves in childcare. Are people really living in marriages where the husband does nothing? This is a genuine question. My family is Indian, and I grew up in America, but from what I remember, my mom and dad spent most of their time taking care of my brother and I, whether that be by cooking, paying bills, cleaning the house, taking care of the car, driving us around, etc. Our g…

I’ve seen it happen a lot. Father works (particularly in a tech context often earns much more than mother). Uses this fact to exercise financial control and states that their “equal contribution” is financial support.

Meanwhile, at least in early years, mother spends 16 hours a day looking after kids. Essentially the father gets some downtime, but mother has to look after kids constantly (maybe gets a little help but that’s it). And if you /never/ get any downtime it tends to drive you into depression... causes other issues.

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#207

Post by sctb »

Karishma1234 wrote: post #36

Not true at all. Turns out that the poor people who actually cant afford to have kids are having more kids. Hispanic and Black growth is much higher than whites and asians. Asians with the highest income level have lowest birth rate. Given that it is mostly whites who have been leading in STEM there is a high chance that US will lose its competitive advantage in these fields.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17094708 and marked it off-topic. Please don't start generic racewars here.

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#208

Post by smileysteve »

Karawebnetwork wrote: post #45
reb wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t that still track? Having children makes it harder to get/stay rich, not having children makes it easier.

When you have nothing in your life and none of your achievements will outlast you, the prospect of having children is more interesting. There's also the whole "not being aware contraception exists because you couldn't go to school" thing.

"contraception is expensive and pulling out will work"

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#209

Post by mlrtime »

nostromo wrote: post #35
mhneu wrote: post #8

For decades, the US birth rate has been held up by immigration. American values have been to regard the country as a nation of immigrants, who not only act as a source of youthful workers, but also have more kids than Americans who have been here longer. So the US has avoided workforce aging, as has happened in parts of Europe and especially Japan, through immigration. With the recent reduction in immigration, accele…

I don't see the value in large numbers of unskilled workers entering the US every year. With a potentially large wave of automation coming, the US shouldn't straddled itself with lots of unemployable drivers, farm workers, etc. I hope we can move to a much more sensible immigration system, similar to Canada's, for example.

Try getting reasonably priced manual or domestic work in NYC. Workers here are lazy, incompetent and entitled. Compared to large cities in Asia it is difficult to get good workers here.

YMMV

Re: US Births Dip to 30-yr Low; Fertility Rate Sinks Further Below Replacement Level

#210

Post by wes-k »

Viker wrote: post #10

Interesting... How many people here would say that they have actively decided not to have children? I am just curious.

32 male here. I actually love kids but my partner and I decided it’s not a good time and if we do want kids we should adopt. There’s still plenty of kids still without parents...
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