College May Not Be Worth It Anymore • Hacker News Board

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#91

Post by VikingCoder » Thu, May 17, 2018, 4:38 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #28

VikingCoder wrote: post #7

I assert the expense of college is an awful burden to put on someone who must finance most of it through debt. It's a gamble. You can improve your odds of a happy outcome in that gamble by looking at the Student Loan Default Rate for any given major at any given college, and picking the best program for you (with the lowest default rate possible.) But if you are a child of parents who can finance your college? Absolu…

If somebody is passionate about art history, then they should get a degree in art history regardless of job prospects. You are limiting their ability to get the education they want. Now I will agree that somebody getting an art history type degree shouldn't be taking loans to get it, they should be paying for it out of their pocket. However we should not limit somebody from pursuing their interests just because their…

Fair enough. And I'm just talking out of my ass about my own theories, here. I still welcome conversation to try to inform myself.

Roughly, I think we should think in terms of Trade Schools and Liberal Arts programs.

I'm a huge fan of Liberal Arts programs, but I don't think they should be a pre-requisite for a STEM career. They also shouldn't be a pre-requisite for many jobs that people have today.

We should all be much more in favor of Mentoring. Maybe Corporations should receive tax benefits for being good Mentors.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#92

Post by mtberatwork » Thu, May 17, 2018, 4:38 PM UTC

mkirklions wrote: post #53

anoncoward111 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's already a shame that the answer isn't 100% yes, 100% of the time. back in the 70s, tuition was payable with a summer job and job prospects were decent enough despite geopolitical and economic headwinds these days, the same problems plague the job market, but every year of college costs 1 year of salary, unless you qualify for stackable forms of financial aid

People hate when I talk about working fulltime in the factory on the midnight shift and going to school fulltime. I didnt get 'the college experience'. But I didnt have any college debt, I became a hardened adult that didnt cry when plant people got pissed. I dont complain. If something needs to get done, I do it. Graduated in 3 years with my chem engineering degree at age 21. People will always complain about someth…

The point is that there was a time when you could have worked that factory job during the summer to pay for the next year's tuition. I'm sure you would concede that this is much more reasonable than working a full time job on top of a full time university load.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#93

Post by macinjosh » Thu, May 17, 2018, 4:39 PM UTC

News flash, it hasn't been worth it for at least 15 years. That is when I graduated high-school. I toured some colleges, submitted my FASFA, and ran the numbers. My family was lower middle class. My grades were above average but not top of my class. I had two options: take out loans for college and go into immense debt at age 18 or learn a marketable skill and go to work. I was already self-learning how to code during high school.

I decided to avoid the debt and get to work. Best decision I've ever made. It wasn't always easy but being debt free except for a mortgage that fits my income has provided for a very comfortable life.

If you want to do something with your life that actually requires a college degree, go for it, otherwise learn a trade and live your life without unreasonable debt. During high school every adult in my life told me that I could never make a decent living without a college degree. They were wrong.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#94

Post by SilasX » Thu, May 17, 2018, 4:39 PM UTC

awalton wrote: post #12

paulpauper wrote: post #2

The NYTimes republishes a variant of this articles almost every month https://www.google.com/search?q=site:nytimes.com+college+wor... The usual answer is "it depends"

Which is probably a good thing, since it will slowly beat into the minds of upper-levels at corps and recruiters that a College Degree shouldn't be the minimum bar applicants need to reach, and maybe some of these companies will start removing the "has degree" band reject filter.

Yes, my HS counselor, in speeches to students at assemblies (c.1999), was constantly saying "It doesn't matter which college you go to, but you absolutely must get a degree."

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#95

Post by sandworm101 » Thu, May 17, 2018, 4:40 PM UTC

>> It shouldn’t here, either: According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, fewer than 20 percent of American jobs actually require a bachelor’s degree.

Ya ... well ... try applying for a job without one. In many fields university education is expected. You can get in on the ground floor as a uneducated kid and rise through the ranks of an organization but you will be locked in. Any job applicant over 30 is expected to either have one or at least have a good excuse for not finishing their degree.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#96

Post by tejaswiy » Thu, May 17, 2018, 4:40 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #28

VikingCoder wrote: post #7

I assert the expense of college is an awful burden to put on someone who must finance most of it through debt. It's a gamble. You can improve your odds of a happy outcome in that gamble by looking at the Student Loan Default Rate for any given major at any given college, and picking the best program for you (with the lowest default rate possible.) But if you are a child of parents who can finance your college? Absolu…

If somebody is passionate about art history, then they should get a degree in art history regardless of job prospects. You are limiting their ability to get the education they want. Now I will agree that somebody getting an art history type degree shouldn't be taking loans to get it, they should be paying for it out of their pocket. However we should not limit somebody from pursuing their interests just because their…

I think the argument is to not prevent people from getting art history degrees - just to make all art history courses in the US artificially limit the number of students they take in to match the actual demand.

So if someone's super passionate about art history and is also able to meet the (presumably) more stringent entry criteria, they will still be able to get that degree.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#97

Post by VikingCoder » Thu, May 17, 2018, 4:40 PM UTC

danmg wrote: post #35

VikingCoder wrote: post #7

I assert the expense of college is an awful burden to put on someone who must finance most of it through debt. It's a gamble. You can improve your odds of a happy outcome in that gamble by looking at the Student Loan Default Rate for any given major at any given college, and picking the best program for you (with the lowest default rate possible.) But if you are a child of parents who can finance your college? Absolu…

From my personal experience, an engineering degree is the fastest path from the underclass to solid middle-upper class. Dissuading those kids from going to college is not a good idea if you care about social mobility.

Sure, right now engineering should accept a ton of students. And be encouraging more. Say, for instance by being free, and then using Progressive taxation on the graduates to pay for it all.

Note that I'm essentially advocating a Loan, but without a Principal. And it's means adjusted what the interest is. And you never finish paying it off.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#98

Post by enitihas » Thu, May 17, 2018, 4:40 PM UTC

The one advantage college will always have is that it is very difficult otherwise to bring a high number of intelligent people for 3-4 years at the same time and allow them to think freely. This will be difficult to replicate.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#99

Post by eanzenberg » Thu, May 17, 2018, 4:40 PM UTC

imglorp wrote: post #29

chasing wrote: post #8

The issue isn't that college is pointless, it's that tuition is too high and wages too low. You should support politicians with a plan to counter this trend. Education is important. Raising the overall level of education in this country should be a much larger goal that it seems to be.

Agree - I think we should consider a well educated base of voters, workers, and neighbors as critical infrastucture along with roads and internet. I think some decisions lately have highlighted an open hostility towards science, education, and by implication, democracy. This needs to be reversed.

I do too, a core belief is that educated people are critical to success on a national and world level. However, colleges have an aggressive liberal slant which for me took a decade to even out to center.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#100

Post by madengr » Thu, May 17, 2018, 4:40 PM UTC

toomanybeersies wrote: post #64

Ignoring financial reasons, I think that university is absolutely worth it. It's 3 or 4 years of your life where you've (often) just left home, it's the first time in your life that you're actually free to do what you want. It's an incredible place to learn about yourself and grow, where the consequences of fucking up usually aren't as severe.

I dunno, I would consider flunking courses, with that high tuition, to be severe.