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College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

nytimes.com

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Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#31

Post by optimuspaul »

anoncoward111 wrote: post #11
paulpauper wrote: post #2

The NYTimes republishes a variant of this articles almost every month https://www.google.com/search?q=site:nytimes.com+college+wor... The usual answer is "it depends"

it's already a shame that the answer isn't 100% yes, 100% of the time. back in the 70s, tuition was payable with a summer job and job prospects were decent enough despite geopolitical and economic headwinds these days, the same problems plague the job market, but every year of college costs 1 year of salary, unless you qualify for stackable forms of financial aid

There are still many colleges that you cost less than a years salary. Other than that nitpick I agree. Economics aside I think that college doesn't actually prepare people for working in the real world. But the only thing that really does that is actually working in the real world.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#32

Post by bluGill »

ericb wrote: post #18
chasing wrote: post #8

The issue isn't that college is pointless, it's that tuition is too high and wages too low. You should support politicians with a plan to counter this trend. Education is important. Raising the overall level of education in this country should be a much larger goal that it seems to be.

> Raising the overall level of education in this country should be a much larger goal that it seems to be. On one level, I totally agree. At the same time, well-meaning attempts to make college loans available to everyone for everything seem to have massively bloated the cost of education to a crippling degree. I think the key is in the how of the approach.

That is the problem with politics: the unintended effects are always an issue.

Of course everything else has this issue as well. The only difference is most of us start small, and if it works we expand. You can't do that easily for national programs.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#33

Post by Rotdhizon »

This is a nothing article, the fact that it completely leaves out what degrees are being obtained invalidates it to me. It says that a college graduate makes only ~$3,000 more a year on average than a high school graduate? With how hard they are dissing degrees, I assume they are talking about some worthless degree like liberal arts.

"Why do employers demand a degree for jobs that don’t require them?" > This is a common practice. Speaking from tech industry experience, you'd be hard pressed to find a single job opening that didn't have a degree requirement listed. The kicker? It's not actually a requirement, it's there for formality.

" Technology increased the demand for educated workers, but that demand has been consistently outpaced by the number of people — urged on by everyone from teachers to presidents — prepared to meet it." > If this is referencing the tech industry, then this is an outright false claim. Tech industry job openings to skilled applications is something like 2:1, if not 3:1 right now. Since he just said technology in general, it might not be referencing the tech industry. Talking about the job market in general, I don't have any insight into that.

"The authors don’t speculate as to why this is the case, but it seems that students from poor backgrounds have less access to very high-income jobs in technology, finance and other fields. Class and race surely play a role." > Absolutely false. Race might play a small role depending on the state and environment, but class sure doesn't. No respectable tech employer cares about your financial upbringing, it's about what you have to bring to the table right then and there.

It really all comes down to how you play your cards. If you have the chance to attend college(which not everyone has the chance to do), you have to go with what will open the most doors. You can't expect to spend 2 years getting something like a liberal arts degree and expect to be making 6 figures. You have to research, you have to understand what skills are in demand. I will say that I am biased when writing this. As someone who grew up extremely poor and found opportunity through a tech degree in a local college, I very well have a world of opportunities now because of it. So it is infuriating that the author dares to consider the idea of even community college not being worth it, when it very well is one of the very few doors that leads to bigger and better things for low income people.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#34

Post by bluedevil2k »

VikingCoder wrote: post #7

I assert the expense of college is an awful burden to put on someone who must finance most of it through debt. It's a gamble. You can improve your odds of a happy outcome in that gamble by looking at the Student Loan Default Rate for any given major at any given college, and picking the best program for you (with the lowest default rate possible.) But if you are a child of parents who can finance your college? Absolu…

Student loan interest rates should be tied to the major. Engineering major? $0 down, 3.5% interest rate. Art History major? 25% down, 15% interest rate.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#35

Post by danmg »

VikingCoder wrote: post #7

I assert the expense of college is an awful burden to put on someone who must finance most of it through debt. It's a gamble. You can improve your odds of a happy outcome in that gamble by looking at the Student Loan Default Rate for any given major at any given college, and picking the best program for you (with the lowest default rate possible.) But if you are a child of parents who can finance your college? Absolu…

From my personal experience, an engineering degree is the fastest path from the underclass to solid middle-upper class. Dissuading those kids from going to college is not a good idea if you care about social mobility.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#36

Post by andrewvc »

College is probably a great thing for some people, but it's been oversold. It's not the destination, it's just one way of getting there.

One reason why it's so easy to sell, is that college is a near universal experience for the middle and upper classes, and being an expensive experience, people credit it with much of the personal growth that happens in one's early 20s. They also credit it with making them good at their field.

"I really learned how to think in college"

"I really learned how to be apply myself in college"

"I really learned computer science in college, which wouldn't have happened if I went via some other path.

etc.

It's far too painful for most people to think "I could have been an equally skilled person if I'd spent that time doing something else".

I come from a long line of people who've succeeded without going to college. When I tell people I've known for a while that I dropped out of a community college they usually seem stunned and surprised that someone could actually have a reasonably intelligent conversation with them (and be a decent engineer) without that history.

My experience is that you can read books on the humanities, and CS, and get work done AND not kill yourself in the process. Maybe the road is a little longer in some ways, but you also come out of it without debt, and you get the benefit of having a very different set of formative experiences than your peers.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#37

Post by darepublic »

chasing wrote: post #8

The issue isn't that college is pointless, it's that tuition is too high and wages too low. You should support politicians with a plan to counter this trend. Education is important. Raising the overall level of education in this country should be a much larger goal that it seems to be.

Judging from recent news about no white day etc college can be a place to go and become deluded and converted to socialism. So maybe worse than pointless

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#38

Post by and0 »

cryptoz wrote: post #9

The article takes an exclusively financial look at 'worth it' and completely ignores both education and human connection as an aspect of going to college. I get that the author is writing about money and money alone, but the headline is deceptive. Additionally, I do understand that a lot of people go to college for the purposes of getting a job. But that's not all college is, and pretending that the only reason anyon…

You don't need to rack up six figures of debt to make human connections or gain experiences. There are a number of ways to accomplish this without all the debt and in arguably more useful ways than memorizing things you'll never have a chance to use. Off the top of my head, I can imagine volunteer work or, better yet, New-Deal-style programs with actual financial incentive would offer the same ~magical experience~ of fraternity.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#39

Post by daemonk »

If we put aside the financial concerns, which admittedly is a significant factor, what you get out of college is what you want to put into it. If you see it as just a hoop to jump through, then perhaps it's not worth it.

Re: College May Not Be Worth It Anymore

#40

Post by mkirklions »

the_new_guy_29 wrote: post #27
paulpauper wrote: post #2

The NYTimes republishes a variant of this articles almost every month https://www.google.com/search?q=site:nytimes.com+college+wor... The usual answer is "it depends"

It depends on how you spend that time. Studing hard pays off, slacking off - not. This should be a common knowledge. It more or less boils down to this and not status or race...

This is true for everything.

People shouldnt blog, unless they are going to do hard work making the content useful.

People shouldnt be a contractor, unless they have fantastic skills in a sector.

If you are going to work hard and think hard, you will have success in nearly any market.

If you copypasted the example android Hello World app, you arent going to succeed in the programming market.

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