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Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

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Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#61
post #27
post #13

Im a stable, sane, not depressed or anything person. I once took LSD (mixed with other things aswell...) and had a trip during which I spoke to God, Satan and various other imaginary beings. It was not a fun experience - I'm a man of science, but the feeling/perception was so real, my entire world view was shattered. It stuck with me for months after. I've gone from someone who 100% believed in evolution and a materi…

> I've gone from someone who 100% believed in evolution and a material universe, to someone who deep down thinks there may be a God, and I may actually have to face some kind of hell for some kind of sins I may unknowingly commit in this life. Well, it sounds like you went from being an atheist to an agnostic. That certainly is a more rational and less dogmatic position to take, based on what we know. As for the Hell…

>Well, it sounds like you went from being an atheist to an agnostic. That certainly is a more rational and less dogmatic position to take, based on what we know.

I'm not sure why this argument shows so often (and it's not even limited to religion), but it's an incredibly bad one. The positions here are not a ternary matter. The options are not limited to 100% one way, 100% the other, or right in the middle.

The 'most rational' position lies somewhere in that continuum. When converting to the usual trinary labels, one extreme or the other may end up being the most rational position. The center is not automatically best.

> I was a staunch atheist before psychedelics, now the notion of a purely material universe seems naive.

Continuing to try to avoid the religion topic directly, I'd caution you against reading too much into your trips, which your excerpt oddly points out as well. Our brains are rather questionable devices for perceiving the world as it really is even when they are functioning properly. There is no reason to believe intentionally screwing with it's functioning would somehow increase it's ability to perceive the world truthfully.

I can see potential value in using trips to improve lateral thinking, and perhaps even for insight into yourself, but in terms of exposing hidden secrets of the universe... There's no rational basis for that, and the most likely explanation seems to be the combination of the intentional misfiring and the usual imperfect operation of our brains.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#62
Podcast: Pollan's interview on the Tim Ferriss show for additional thoughts. Ferriss is committing a million USD over the next few years to support the scientific study of psychedelic compounds.

Audio link just a slight scroll in. https://tim.blog/2018/05/06/michael-pollan-how-to-change-you...

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#63
Aldous Huxley, dying of terminal cancer, took LSD on his deathbed, and died while on his final trip (it was planned that way), although a relatively low dose of 100ug.

It seems to me like it would be a good way to go, a good way to conquer the fear of the unknown after you die.

In a related experience, once when I was on a bender, I took 3 tabs of lsd, along with a whole plethora of other substances. I actually thought I was dead for a while, and strangely enough, I felt OK about it. I saw some pretty weird shit on that trip, it was the most mindblowing experience of my life, and not one I'm about to repeat in a hurry, it honestly wasn't that fun. Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas is not an instruction manual.

But then I sobered up. I really think that Hunter S Thompson was right: it's all bullshit. You're not connecting to another plane of existence or getting in touch with your ancestors. You're just fucked on drugs. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not spiritual.

He really nailed it in Fear and Loathing:

> All those pathetically eager acid freaks who thought they could buy Peace and Understanding for three bucks a hit. But their loss and failure is ours, too. What Leary took down with him was the central illusion of a whole life-style that he helped to create...a generation of permanent cripples, failed seekers, who never understood the essential old mystic fallacy of the Acid Culture: the desperate assumption that somebody-or at least some force-is tending the Light at the end of the tunnel.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#64
post #13

Im a stable, sane, not depressed or anything person. I once took LSD (mixed with other things aswell...) and had a trip during which I spoke to God, Satan and various other imaginary beings. It was not a fun experience - I'm a man of science, but the feeling/perception was so real, my entire world view was shattered. It stuck with me for months after. I've gone from someone who 100% believed in evolution and a materi…

You got it all backwards. What you think is a crack in sanity is actually a crack in the illusion that the physical world is all there is. But to each their own.

[deleted]

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#65
post #13

Im a stable, sane, not depressed or anything person. I once took LSD (mixed with other things aswell...) and had a trip during which I spoke to God, Satan and various other imaginary beings. It was not a fun experience - I'm a man of science, but the feeling/perception was so real, my entire world view was shattered. It stuck with me for months after. I've gone from someone who 100% believed in evolution and a materi…

You got it all backwards. What you think is a crack in sanity is actually a crack in the illusion that the physical world is all there is. But to each their own.

Indeed. Dogmatic materialism is the real mind-virus.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#66

Aldous Huxley, dying of terminal cancer, took LSD on his deathbed, and died while on his final trip (it was planned that way), although a relatively low dose of 100ug. It seems to me like it would be a good way to go, a good way to conquer the fear of the unknown after you die. In a related experience, once when I was on a bender, I took 3 tabs of lsd, along with a whole plethora of other substances. I actually thoug…

So certain you are.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#67

The world would be a better place if everyone ate magic mushrooms in the wilderness on a camping trip as part of outdoor ed. in school. If you've never experienced it, you probably won't understand.

I wish people would stop the unhealthy and irresponsible and dangerous life-destroying hype and promotion of psychedelics including cannabis.

All medical experts warn against the use of drugs and psychedelics except as medical tools of medical experts.

Drugs and psychedelics can trigger all kinds of long term mental disorders that even the best experts might not be able to heal.

Medical science and psychology are still very limited and primitive with regard to addictions and mental disorders and understanding and (healthy) manipulation of the (unhealthy) brain.

If "you" do not believe me, check the internet for reports of people suffering from addiction or mental disorders and their sad quest for help.

Even bad diets and lack of sports and lack of dental care are unsolved health problems in societies in 2018.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#68
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've gone from someone who 100% believed in evolution and a material universe, to someone who deep down thinks there may be a God, and I may actually have to face some kind of hell for some kind of sins I may unknowingly commit in this life. Well, it sounds like you went from being an atheist to an agnostic. That certainly is a more rational and less dogmatic position to take, based on what we know. As for the Hell…

>Well, it sounds like you went from being an atheist to an agnostic. That certainly is a more rational and less dogmatic position to take, based on what we know. I'm not sure why this argument shows so often (and it's not even limited to religion), but it's an incredibly bad one. The positions here are not a ternary matter. The options are not limited to 100% one way, 100% the other, or right in the middle. The 'most…

I don't think anyone here is saying that using psychedelics is going to 'expose hidden secrets'. It's more that they can help you become aware of the holes in your usual way of thinking.

One pattern I've noticed while reading reports of bad trips is people being so miserable during the experience that it forces them to acknowledge that existing in this universe can be really really shitty at times, which shattered their notion that everything's going to be okay due to their limited experience as a relatively well-off white person in 21st century USA. The reports are often written as if whatever drug they took is to blame for their new existential crisis, but I see it more as the fault of the bubble they were in. If they come out of the experience having more compassion for others who are less privileged then I'd say it's an improvement.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could go outside with you, instead of confining you to a room with headphones on.

I suspect the reason that it’s done indoors is that, most places with a high enough density of humans for this practice to be available, the outside is a dangerous place for a tripping patient. Someone driving by blasting a rap album out their window could send a trip in some bad directions.

Also, it’s a clinical study. They need to control the conditions or it’s not science.
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