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US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

zdnet.com

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Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#521

Post by bscphil »

knodi wrote: post #60

Carriers are also selling your billing records. They offer a service to return the carrier billing address/name based on the mobile number. Not only this but late last year all 4 of the major US carriers are offering APIs to convert mobile IP to a billing record (name/address/phone number).

>Not only this but late last year all 4 of the major US carriers are offering APIs to convert mobile IP to a billing record (name/address/phone number).

That's terrifying. Do you have a source I can look at for this? It might be time to always-on VPN my phone.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#522

Post by gowld »

fixermark wrote: post #410
Floegipoky wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of like how automobiles are a luxury, and if people cared about the 4th Amendment they just wouldn't drive anywhere. Nevermind that our way of life is literally not possible without the technologies in question. Every single one of the revelations you've mentioned was met with public backlash, followed by either a misinformation campaign or intense dog-wagging. This is called manufactured consent. For example, l…

You'll have to unbox how driving is related to the 4th Amendment; I would have assumed you were going to observe people continue to drive even though 40,000 people a year die in car accidents. People do the calculus to decide if risk is greater than reward all the time. It appears ubiquitous connectivity, for most people, is far more rewarding than risky.

In short, doing anything that requires a Driver's License severely restricts your freedom from search and seizure while traveling on public highways. To gain those rights back, you have to (de facto) forfeit your Driver's License and stop driving on public highways.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#523

Post by sizzle »

heurist wrote: post #177
random6547545 wrote: post #44

Throwaway account. I work in location / mapping / geo. Some of us have been waiting for this to blow (which it hasn't yet). The public has zero idea how much personal location data is available. It's not just your cell carrier. Your cell phone chip manufacturer, GPS chip manufacturer, phone manufacturer and then pretty much anyone on the installed OS (android crapware) is getting a copy of your location data. Usually…

I'm in the space as well. I've tried telling my congressmen but they ignore me. I'm waiting for the backlash, especially will all the recent privacy issues. It hasn't happened yet and the problem is so large that I honestly doubt whether the public will ever truly grasp what the scope. The advice I always give when this topic comes up us to be very careful with what you install on your phone. The least expensive mobi…

Thanks for the tip. I've made a habit of turning off location services on Android once I'm done using navigation (Waze), do you know if this sufficiently blocks all background tracking for apps I've consented to allow GPS location tracking? Thanks.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#524

Post by gowld »

Illniyar wrote: post #264
dude123456 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

some of crapware can be avoided by using custom ROMs, but not all of it. For example: Qualcomm IZat location services and other location-based trustzone applets remain running even on custom ROMs.

How is it sending the data though? if it's using mobile plans, wouldn't it be noticeable on the data usage plan? (or is it that manufacturers have agreements with carriers to not charge for it?)

Location data is what, maybe 1kB per sample, including lots of overhead? 100 samples/day is 3MB/month. It's not going to affect your mobile data budget.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#525

Post by haZard_OS »

fixermark wrote: post #410
Floegipoky wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of like how automobiles are a luxury, and if people cared about the 4th Amendment they just wouldn't drive anywhere. Nevermind that our way of life is literally not possible without the technologies in question. Every single one of the revelations you've mentioned was met with public backlash, followed by either a misinformation campaign or intense dog-wagging. This is called manufactured consent. For example, l…

You'll have to unbox how driving is related to the 4th Amendment; I would have assumed you were going to observe people continue to drive even though 40,000 people a year die in car accidents. People do the calculus to decide if risk is greater than reward all the time. It appears ubiquitous connectivity, for most people, is far more rewarding than risky.

>People do the calculus to decide if risk is greater than reward all the time.

Technically you're right but what you seem to be missing is that people (in general) suck at risk assessment. Although they are doing "the calculus", most of their calculations are based on heuristics that just don't reflect a rational analysis.

That is why so many people fear plane travel more than car travel, immigrants more than cigarettes, and pharmaceuticals more than "raw water".

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#526

Post by gowld »

Smoofer wrote: post #223
SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Here the difference shows pretty clearly, as I would trust the government more than any company.” What the? ”Government serves the people” Wait seriously? ”Being from Northern Europe,” OH. Yea, I’m pretty sure there is a cultural difference we just aren’t going to agree on. I don’t know what country you are from but I’m going to guess it’s population is pretty small and what you effectively have is small government…

Whether or not they live up to that purpose is another discussion, but at a base level the government exists to serve the people while (for-profit) corporations exist to make money. Regardless of cultural differences.

Government doesn't exist to serve all the people, it exists to serve the continuity of the government.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#527

Post by gowld »

distances wrote: post #52
stevehawk wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes? Government Big Brother can put me in jail just because a cell phone record said I was near a crime while being committed. Corporate Big Brother can only make money from me.

Here the difference shows pretty clearly, as I would trust the government more than any company. Government serves the people, while companies mostly care just about profit. Any of companies' privacy concerns are related to legal and PR risks. Being from Northern Europe, I do feel I have a good reason to trust the government. It's a machine that is working for my benefit, with my tax money, and is held accountable vi…

If your local government is full of such good people, why aren't your corporations?

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#528

Post by King-Aaron »

ethbro wrote: post #468
apozem wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talk to a congressperson who knows about cyber like Ron Wyden.

FFS. "Cyber" is an adjective. Not a noun. Just because the less-technically adept parts of the infosec community & even more hapless government workers wanted to sound cool doesn't suddenly make it right.

That's how colloquial language develops, however.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#529

Post by toufka »

xfitm3 wrote: post #109
Qwertie wrote: post #35

The worst part is there isn't any possible way I know of to defend yourself against this other than not having a phone.

While unreliable it wouldn't be unrealistic to use wifi in densely populated areas. It looks like the pager industry is still alive, too.

I wonder if even an old iPod Touch withought a cellular chip would actually be a useful decice for this kind of wi-fi-only connectivity.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#530

Post by toetied »

i havent read all 504 comments, and dont plan to, but this should come as no suprise to anyone, unfortunatly it does. cogress, dc, will not help there is too uch to gain, posting the info in real time of the ones in power, will shine a light on the issue, they will make it look like this has been taken care of-while it continues. the ONLY solution in my opinion its a revolt-against big data/tech, not a boycott, and exodus to DIY open source tech.
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