Reddit's redesign increases power usage of user's devices • Hacker News Board

Re: Reddit's redesign increases power usage of user's devices

#131

Post by meesterdude » Thu, May 17, 2018, 2:28 AM UTC

dredmorbius wrote: post #70

meesterdude wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why was the change implemented? There's no easy back peddling from a year of development. It may be crap, but they put so much time & effort into it they can't turn back now - even if a lot of users hate it. They're also working more on becoming an Advertising platform, and this redesign allows for more flexibility there, like linkedin's auto-play videos when scrolling into view.

Sunk cost fallacy.

precisely! This is what I was thinking of. I see it a lot in web development and engineering.

Re: Reddit's redesign increases power usage of user's devices

#132

Post by robbomacrae » Thu, May 17, 2018, 2:28 AM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #128

dkasper wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work at Reddit but not on the redesign. I would hardly call our old design great. Functional to those who know Reddit for sure, but for new redditors the learning curve is very steep. Heck, I’ve been on reddit for 12 years and couldn’t figure out how some features worked until I started working at the company. It was time the site didn’t look like a “dystopian craigslist” and looked like a website that was made in…

It was time the site didn’t look like a “dystopian craigslist” and looked like a website that was made in 2018. This is true. However, the transaction needs to seem equitable to the users. Will the improvement in looks and better feature discoverability seem to users like a fair trade-off for performance? Performance of a UI is pretty much the most valued quality to a user. Given that the developers/company have almo…

There is an opt out of the redesign option in your preferences. There is also old.reddit.com where the old design is preserved.

What other comparable network/website goes to that extent to not force a redesign on their users?

Re: Reddit's redesign increases power usage of user's devices

#133

Post by stephengillie » Thu, May 17, 2018, 2:35 AM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #119

stephengillie wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no easy back peddling from a year of development. It may be crap, but they put so much time & effort into it they can't turn back now - even if a lot of users hate it. They're also working more on becoming an Advertising platform, and this redesign allows for more flexibility there, like linkedin's auto-play videos when scrolling into view. Yes there is - you call it what it is, a failed Epic. Pivot and see…

We must endure constant change to allow new generations space to fail and grow. I call BS. I know for a fact that policies of strict continuity can be maintained, because I've done it -- that you can implement radical architectural change without rocking the boat and without throwing the users/UX under the bus. The fact that we, as a field, aren't aware of this just goes to show how "half a field" programming still i…

Users and UX somewhere will be thrown under the bus. The question is - will it be a heavily used multi-million dollar valuation site, or will it be a rarely-used development site?

A big part is the blur between toy and product. We disregard end-users as "sheeple" while simultaneously receiving gratification from their auth count.

Re: Reddit's redesign increases power usage of user's devices

#134

Post by stcredzero » Thu, May 17, 2018, 2:38 AM UTC

robbomacrae wrote: post #121

stcredzero wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The new version of both sites is slow, sluggish and provides me with no benefit. It's about par for the course when a new dev group and/or manager comes in and wants to make their mark. I generally find this sort of thing facepalm-inspiring-not-so-smart. For one thing, there are so many examples out there of how this can go wrong. (see sorenjan's cousin comment) For a mature long-running production system, the right…

Hows Geocities doin? Sometimes you need to evolve to survive. We got stuck with the old codebase and adding features was a nightmare - features a lot of users were demanding! With the new design and codebase we can start adding more features.. optional features! we wont force you to use them. And FYI unlike other companies we don't even force you to use the redesign! We've left the old one up at old.reddit.com

Hows Geocities doin?

Sometimes you need to evolve to survive.

Are you suggesting that I think evolution is wrong? Would that really be a fair reading of my comment?

We got stuck with the old codebase and adding features was a nightmare - features a lot of users were demanding!

A positive suggestion for a future project: Implement a new UI with a newer fancy framework -- but have it emulate the old UI. (It should be flexible enough to implement the old UI and the new.) This lets you be maximally flexible in introducing new features incrementally, and lets you easily make comparisons with the old system, especially with regards to performance. In some cases, this can also let you re-use QA assets. Also, this can facilitate allowing users to transition themselves to the new site/new features incrementally, which makes the transaction of switching to the new UI more consensual for the users. (More pull, less push, from their perspective.)

And FYI unlike other companies we don't even force you to use the redesign! We've left the old one up at old.reddit.com

I noticed. Good on you. As a user, the transaction still seemed a bit foisty to me, but it was better than usual. But as a hoary old dev: you can still do better than the naive complete rewrite.

Re: Reddit's redesign increases power usage of user's devices

#135

Post by robbomacrae » Thu, May 17, 2018, 2:40 AM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #129

robbomacrae wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People love that feature!

How is that quantified?

First off I'm not on the redesign team BTW so haven't been as involved in this analysis enough to adequately answer your question and also my statement is one that you can quantify as such.

But the reason I stated it is that A: it was a heavily requested feature B: comments regarding infinite scroll have been weirdly positive (contrasting my point in another reply about most comments are from very strongly opinionated users) and C: usage statistics ie I can assure you when compared side by side people make more of the equivalent page turns. Personally I like both methods but infinite scroll was a clear winner for us.

Re: Reddit's redesign increases power usage of user's devices

#136

Post by stcredzero » Thu, May 17, 2018, 2:44 AM UTC

robbomacrae wrote: post #132

stcredzero wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was time the site didn’t look like a “dystopian craigslist” and looked like a website that was made in 2018. This is true. However, the transaction needs to seem equitable to the users. Will the improvement in looks and better feature discoverability seem to users like a fair trade-off for performance? Performance of a UI is pretty much the most valued quality to a user. Given that the developers/company have almo…

There is an opt out of the redesign option in your preferences. There is also old.reddit.com where the old design is preserved. What other comparable network/website goes to that extent to not force a redesign on their users?

What other comparable network/website goes to that extent to not force a redesign on their users?

Ok, let's be fair. Given the dismal record of websites with regard to user continuity, you're doing relatively great! However, I'd also say that this is the wrong pool to measure against if you're looking for the limits of excellence. You're doing better than the peer group -- that can be fairly said to be a positive. But what if your peer group are the delinquents?

So good on you for what you've done! Perhaps I'm a bit delinquent in giving you some deserved praise and credit. It's a good start. However, there's a lot further you could go if you wanted to.

EDIT: What is it with the redesign opt-out form? It feels a bit heavy handed. How about I just get to have the old site by default, and I get to check out the new design when I feel like it, without the inquisition?

Re: Reddit's redesign increases power usage of user's devices

#137

Post by wil421 » Thu, May 17, 2018, 2:50 AM UTC

atwebb wrote: post #116

wil421 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I created my HN accout 7 years ago after lurking for a couple years. People have been saying the same thing about HN the whole time I’ve been around.

It's a bit different though with the moderation and lack of revenue focus.

Well I think the self moderation the HN crowd does can’t be scaled. Reddit also didn’t moderate enough at fist. I also don’t like being at the mercy of bad subreddit mods.

Re: Reddit's redesign increases power usage of user's devices

#138

Post by Svenskunganka » Thu, May 17, 2018, 2:50 AM UTC

robbomacrae wrote: post #113

frfl wrote: post #22

Anyone from reddit's dev team reading this? Or youtube's dev team, because my question applies to both. The previous design was great. The new version of both sites is slow, sluggish and provides me with no benefit. Why was the change implemented? The previous design wasn't broken! How's the user feedback? A/B testing really indicated to you this was a good choice?! If you have any insight -- I'm sure this was a deci…

I'm reading! First off the linked post wasn't a very fair analysis and redditors pointed that out in the comments. But to answer your questions: The previous design wasn't broken per se but it wasn't particularly user friendly. Whilst there are plenty of redditors who are used to the layout, a lot of potential users (first time visitors) never came back and became redditors - including many people I tried to introduc…

I'm curious what the technical reasons for you to choose to re-build it as an SPA rather than just gradually improve the layout and some new features? I don't use Reddit as an application. I have my favorite subreddits in my bookmark bar in my browser, under a folder called "Reddit". Everytime I switch between them I am forced to do a re-render from the ground up now, which takes about 4-5 seconds on my quite beefy hardware and network (overclocked i7, TITAN X, 1Gbit fiber), while the old design only took a second, 600ms of which were TTFB for the main html of the page.

I understand if your reason for a redesign is to keep new users, but what I don't understand is why it had to be a single-page application?

Re: Reddit's redesign increases power usage of user's devices

#139

Post by stcredzero » Thu, May 17, 2018, 2:52 AM UTC

stephengillie wrote: post #133

stcredzero wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We must endure constant change to allow new generations space to fail and grow. I call BS. I know for a fact that policies of strict continuity can be maintained, because I've done it -- that you can implement radical architectural change without rocking the boat and without throwing the users/UX under the bus. The fact that we, as a field, aren't aware of this just goes to show how "half a field" programming still i…

Users and UX somewhere will be thrown under the bus. The question is - will it be a heavily used multi-million dollar valuation site, or will it be a rarely-used development site? A big part is the blur between toy and product. We disregard end-users as "sheeple" while simultaneously receiving gratification from their auth count.

Users and UX somewhere will be thrown under the bus.

I call BS. If you're moving to a new UI framework, these are usually powerful enough to emulate the old UI. Getting the new framework to feel as snappy as the old UI is a very good benchmark for performance as well as for feature parity. (They usually have more features, but there might be some corner-case overlooked.)

The question is - will it be a heavily used multi-million dollar valuation site, or will it be a rarely-used development site?

Management sometimes will decide that it isn't worth the effort, and sometimes that will be the right call. But for a user-oriented site, high value should be placed on the user.

Re: Reddit's redesign increases power usage of user's devices

#140

Post by djangowithme » Thu, May 17, 2018, 2:55 AM UTC

frfl wrote: post #22

Anyone from reddit's dev team reading this? Or youtube's dev team, because my question applies to both. The previous design was great. The new version of both sites is slow, sluggish and provides me with no benefit. Why was the change implemented? The previous design wasn't broken! How's the user feedback? A/B testing really indicated to you this was a good choice?! If you have any insight -- I'm sure this was a deci…

I've recently come to this tough realization myself after seeing what a mess javascript heavy apps can create. I'm sure theres some way to do it "right", but I felt like building a js clientside app inherently put me behind where static sites where starting.

The solution? Server side rendering through next.js, same code via redux+react-router+react.