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What if JavaScript wins?

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Re: What if JavaScript wins?

#21

Post by bitL »

kapv89 wrote: post #17

For me, as a founder of a young startup, the overarching benefit of being proficient in modern JS and sorrounding tooling is that I can use the same language for my whole stack(servers, web, Android, iOS), and spend more time thinking about the product and business. In the possible future where the company grows enough where it needs a distributed server software, the only part of the product that'd be changing would…

You literally restrict yourself to one of the worst languages ever designed. What could be solved with elegance and without demoralizing your staff in 5 minutes in some other language, in JavaScript it might require "sailing to Africa and back" to achieve the same (though I must say it has improved a bit recently from the insanity it used to be). On paper it might look good to you, but the reality is very different and you are making yourself seriously restricted in competing with other companies using more sane languages.

Not to mention the web stack changes every single year completely, node has scalability and versioning issues, and you end up relying on quickly changing pieces of code you have zero control about.

Re: What if JavaScript wins?

#22

Post by Joeri »

kizer wrote: post #6

All the C derivatives are getting closer to one-another. How different are Typescript, C-sharp, and Java? When JavaScript adds gradual typing, interface, etc. won't all these languages be nearly the same? The runtimes will differ but the language features and syntax will be almost the same.

The problem is that these features get watered down as they make the jump. There’s a very clear scala > java > php feature pipeline, but features get worse with every leap. The way lambdas work in scala is better than java which is better than php. I wish languages would solve these problems in a way that nicely fits the language, instead of copying the subset of the feature which they can make compatible.

Maybe the programming world has become too networked and there’s a lack of original thought when implementing language features.

Re: What if JavaScript wins?

#23

Post by mLuby »

kapv89 wrote: post #17

For me, as a founder of a young startup, the overarching benefit of being proficient in modern JS and sorrounding tooling is that I can use the same language for my whole stack(servers, web, Android, iOS), and spend more time thinking about the product and business. In the possible future where the company grows enough where it needs a distributed server software, the only part of the product that'd be changing would…

100%. In addition, I know I can hire tons of mid-level people with JS skills and they'll be effective quickly. As much as I'd love to throw a bunch of Haskell into the codebase, the vast majority of engineers will take a while to be productive in it.

Re: What if JavaScript wins?

#24

Post by nomy99 »

shiado wrote: post #19

I used to hate JS because the language is objectively badly designed, but then I realized that the merits of the language provide a glimpse of the future of programming. Most programming problems people have are highly generic, often looking to implement something completely off the shelf as far as problems go. Wheels can only be reinvented so many times in so many ways. To me the JS ecosystem offers a level of high…

"In the future programmers won't be replaced by robots, they will be replaced by import statements."

I disagree. How is this different from someone 20 years ago saying programmers will be replaced by jar files.

Re: What if JavaScript wins?

#25

Post by bitL »

shiado wrote: post #19

I used to hate JS because the language is objectively badly designed, but then I realized that the merits of the language provide a glimpse of the future of programming. Most programming problems people have are highly generic, often looking to implement something completely off the shelf as far as problems go. Wheels can only be reinvented so many times in so many ways. To me the JS ecosystem offers a level of high…

> highly generic, often looking to implement something completely off the shelf as far as problems go.

There is serious work being undergone in automating this using advanced ML. In 5-10 years most of these problems will be LEGO-ized and humans won't be needed on that level. So your generic JavaScript developer used to glue these pieces will be gone.

Re: What if JavaScript wins?

#26

Post by throwpoiu09 »

To put things in perspective, every decade there is an uber popular so called simple but highly inadequate non-type checked language that is taking over the world of novice developers. It's a social phenomenon. Started with Basic, JavaScript is the latest incarnation.

By the same token, there is also one overcomplicated yet unavoidable professional language. In that sense, Scala these days has a proud lineage of C++ and PL/I.

And one Lisp leader per decade for humans who not only perceive human-oriented syntax as an apostasy and a personal affront but expect that Borg of parentheses will win any moment now. Hi, Closure.

Re: What if JavaScript wins?

#27

Post by mLuby »

bitL wrote: post #21
kapv89 wrote: post #17

For me, as a founder of a young startup, the overarching benefit of being proficient in modern JS and sorrounding tooling is that I can use the same language for my whole stack(servers, web, Android, iOS), and spend more time thinking about the product and business. In the possible future where the company grows enough where it needs a distributed server software, the only part of the product that'd be changing would…

You literally restrict yourself to one of the worst languages ever designed. What could be solved with elegance and without demoralizing your staff in 5 minutes in some other language, in JavaScript it might require "sailing to Africa and back" to achieve the same (though I must say it has improved a bit recently from the insanity it used to be). On paper it might look good to you, but the reality is very different a…

Only demoralizing if your staff haven't updated their knowledge of JS since 2005. :P

Re: What if JavaScript wins?

#28

Post by coderzach »

bitL wrote: post #21
kapv89 wrote: post #17

For me, as a founder of a young startup, the overarching benefit of being proficient in modern JS and sorrounding tooling is that I can use the same language for my whole stack(servers, web, Android, iOS), and spend more time thinking about the product and business. In the possible future where the company grows enough where it needs a distributed server software, the only part of the product that'd be changing would…

You literally restrict yourself to one of the worst languages ever designed. What could be solved with elegance and without demoralizing your staff in 5 minutes in some other language, in JavaScript it might require "sailing to Africa and back" to achieve the same (though I must say it has improved a bit recently from the insanity it used to be). On paper it might look good to you, but the reality is very different a…

What's an example of a "sailing to Africa and back" problem in JavaScript?

Re: What if JavaScript wins?

#29

Post by andrewmcwatters »

nomy99 wrote: post #24
shiado wrote: post #19

I used to hate JS because the language is objectively badly designed, but then I realized that the merits of the language provide a glimpse of the future of programming. Most programming problems people have are highly generic, often looking to implement something completely off the shelf as far as problems go. Wheels can only be reinvented so many times in so many ways. To me the JS ecosystem offers a level of high…

"In the future programmers won't be replaced by robots, they will be replaced by import statements." I disagree. How is this different from someone 20 years ago saying programmers will be replaced by jar files.

Yeah, the reality is some of us got replaced by Adobe and Salesforce.

Re: What if JavaScript wins?

#30

Post by woah »

bitL wrote: post #25
shiado wrote: post #19

I used to hate JS because the language is objectively badly designed, but then I realized that the merits of the language provide a glimpse of the future of programming. Most programming problems people have are highly generic, often looking to implement something completely off the shelf as far as problems go. Wheels can only be reinvented so many times in so many ways. To me the JS ecosystem offers a level of high…

> highly generic, often looking to implement something completely off the shelf as far as problems go. There is serious work being undergone in automating this using advanced ML. In 5-10 years most of these problems will be LEGO-ized and humans won't be needed on that level. So your generic JavaScript developer used to glue these pieces will be gone.

That’s been 5-10 years out since the 50’s, right?
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