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I Got Catfished by a Candidate

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Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#461

Post by gkya »

evrydayhustling wrote: post #122
sheepmullet wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> who feel they have skills but lack credentials, but it is no excuse for falsifying info. Why is it no excuse? Because we work in a system where the majority of employees and employers are trying to do the right thing. But that's becoming less and less true - I've interviewed with plenty of companies who have no problem with wasting days of a potential employees time with large take home tests and I've got no qualms…

It's not just unethical, it's impractical, and the same reason applies to your take-home tests: if the first thing your employer asks you to do is something you want to outsource, what makes you think the tenth thing they ask you to do will be better? It's fair to be annoyed when hiring managers shift costs of filtering over to candidates. If it really bothers you, might be a sign to avoid that company culture entire…

A very small amount of people have such an abundance of opportunities.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#462

Post by matte_black »

abiox wrote: post #332
Kluny wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's talking about the actual definition of contractor according to US law. If a person does not have the right to choose how, where, when, and by what means the work is done, they're not a contractor. https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employe...

this is interesting heuristic guidance on taxes, but this doesn't describe labor or contract law, as far as i can tell. your link even notes: > There is no “magic” or set number of factors that “makes” the worker an employee or an independent contractor, and no one factor stands alone in making this determination. Also, factors which are relevant in one situation may not be relevant in another.

> “You are not an independent contractor if you perform services that can be controlled by an employer -- what will be done and how it will be done, the IRS rule says. “This applies even if you are given freedom of action. What matters is that the employer has the legal right to control the details of how the services are performed.”

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#463

Post by eeZah7Ux »

learc83 wrote: post #295
AmericanChopper wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not really what I’m saying at all. Every lie you tell jeopardises the trust you have amongst others. You might not get caught, and if you do, you may not damage the trust irreparably depending on the magnitude of the lie. I’m also saying that a workplace cannot be functional without trust, and that a workplace that tolerates dishonesty will invariably erode it. So unless you want to exist in such a workplace,…

You ever politely laugh at something you really didn't find all that funny? Human social interactions are built on small deceptions. Some amount of dishonesty is required if you want to avoid being an awkward social pariah. If you are incapable of any social dishonesty whatsoever, you will quickly be labeled an inappropriate, self righteous asshole. Of course there is a limit to those social norms. Dishonesty that ex…

> Some amount of dishonesty is required if you want to avoid being an awkward social pariah.

Not at all. When people ask "did you like the food?" they want to receive honest feedback, including a perfectly acceptable "actually not that much", at least where I live.

You can teach people that you will refuse to manipulate them and lie to them - and that this is a way to respect their dignity.

It's also unpolite to ask direct, potentially embarrassing questions that put people on the spot. There is nothing wrong in asking people not to do that.

People can find your (polite) honesty refreshing and warm.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#464

Post by ebbv »

f4stjack wrote: post #390

The thing I don't get is, and probably I'll be downvoted to hell because of that, even though this guy lied about his past, his knowledge is solid. Nobody can guess what the interviewers will ask you and from what I've read from the text he aced those. If this is the tech business rolls what I see that it wants developers with a history, with connections, with "clout" so to speak; doesn't matter if you can help their…

Dude, no. Someone who would lie this much to get what he wants will lie when you're working with him.

If he makes a big mistake he will lie about it to avoid getting fired just as surely as he lied to get the job.

Citing Neil Gaiman -- or some other celebrity -- doesn't do anything to make this less true.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#465

Post by phyller »

eeZah7Ux wrote: post #455
phyller wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people seem to think that people will lie about small things, but not big things. I kind of think that if you are willing to compromise your integrity for something small, you are definitely going to lie on the big things when the stakes are higher.

[citation needed] Usually that's not the case. Plenty of people lie, often unnecessarily, about tiny things like making excuses for being late but would not lie to cover up anything that has serious ethical implications.

The first person people lie to is themselves. For a person that doesn't have a personal commitment to integrity, when they are placed in a position where they are incentivized to lie, they will first convince themselves that this lie is either harmless (we are going to lose the account anyway, what is the point of getting everyone mad at me) or the lie is for a good cause. Once that is done, usually unconsciously, then they can tell the lie.

I used to own a business, and I hired people that I knew, nice people. I learned that I should never hire anyone who was not trustworthy, to myself or others, it's just not worth it. One of my friends attended part of the hiring process by telling his current employer that he was sick. This raised red flags in my mind, but I thought, surely he wouldn't do that to me, his friend? Later he did sloppy work and hid it from me with lies, the company almost fell apart. One of many similar stories.

If you have a habit of convenient lies, when the pressure is on and the fear is in your gut, you're going to lie. Don't lie to yourself about it :)

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#466

Post by ebbv »

Tip #3 is pretty silly. Lots of people don't use LinkedIn, it's a horrible site, and a LinkedIn profile isn't proof of anything.

Spend more time talking to your candidates and ask for real references. Don't trust phone numbers and emails given by the candidate, if someone references someone who works at a company then contact the company through their public contact methods.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#467

Post by welly »

ebbv wrote: post #464
f4stjack wrote: post #390

The thing I don't get is, and probably I'll be downvoted to hell because of that, even though this guy lied about his past, his knowledge is solid. Nobody can guess what the interviewers will ask you and from what I've read from the text he aced those. If this is the tech business rolls what I see that it wants developers with a history, with connections, with "clout" so to speak; doesn't matter if you can help their…

Dude, no. Someone who would lie this much to get what he wants will lie when you're working with him. If he makes a big mistake he will lie about it to avoid getting fired just as surely as he lied to get the job. Citing Neil Gaiman -- or some other celebrity -- doesn't do anything to make this less true.

To get what he wants? Would that be a job?

So are you saying that in all your interviews you've had in the past you've been absolutely, positively 100% truthful about your experience and knowledge? That you've never inflated your abilities whatsoever?

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#468

Post by eeZah7Ux »

Const-me wrote: post #14

> a catfish is someone who creates a false identity By this definition, U.S. Marshals Service is a bunch of catfishes: https://people.howstuffworks.com/witness-protection.htm/prin...

Social networks are making witness protection very risky.

For a witness the old "we know where you live" is now 100 times more plausible and threatening.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#469

Post by mrbill »

pjc50 wrote: post #411
rando444 wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(1) Networking and building a reputation for yourself will always have value. (2) Most of the things that he's listed are merits. Being involved in his community, having a strong verifiable previous job history with good references, etc. (3) Having a good job history, making friends, and being involved in online and offline communities are not things limited to white males.

In re (3), the post specifically mentions the Masons, which traditionally is extremely exclusive, men-only, excludes Catholics, etc. They've opened up slightly in response to pressure, and there are some female freemasons, but it's still pretty exclusive.

We have plenty of Catholic members. The Masons didn't exclude Catholics, the Pope banned membership in Masonry by Catholics because he considered the organization a threat to his authority. That ban is pretty much ignored nowdays.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_ban_of_Freemasonry

The Knights of Columbus was formed as a "Catholic equivalent of Freemasonry", basically.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#470

Post by mrbill »

jacquesm wrote: post #406
mrbill wrote: post #87

You just never know who might turn up from your past... 1999: I was a sysadmin at an ISP in Austin. One day we had a tour come through, people looking to see if they wanted to colo in our datacenter. In walks in the former CEO and most of the technical staff from the Oklahoma City-based ISP I'd started my career at and left in '96. We laughed, shook hands.. and they headhunted me away a couple months later with a 200…

Only loosely related to your comment but the freemason bit reminded me of this Monty Python sketch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2PyeXRwhCE

I rather like this Hale and Pace bit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBnzp4OkDD4

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