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I Got Catfished by a Candidate

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Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#431

Post by watwut »

rando444 wrote: post #404
pjc50 wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Next time someone says technical hiring is not hiring quite so many women or minorities because it's purely meritocratic, I'm going to point them at this post.

(1) Networking and building a reputation for yourself will always have value. (2) Most of the things that he's listed are merits. Being involved in his community, having a strong verifiable previous job history with good references, etc. (3) Having a good job history, making friends, and being involved in online and offline communities are not things limited to white males.

Speaking about meritocracy.

1.) We laughed, shook hands and they headhunted me away

The headhunt started on very little information - basically on how he laugh and shakes of hand. Had likely proved himself later, but it was all was on instant first impression - where biases matter most.

2.) Freemason

How is that related to merit in tech? Yes, similar "we have thing in common" bias happen everywhere (and may advantage women in other context), but is not merit. Had he be a women that got hired on sewing hobby or membership in feminist organization, it would still not be meritocracy.

3.) making friends, and being involved in online and offline communities are not things limited to white males

Absolutely, in other context it would advantage women or whoever. However, they advantage people with same hobbies and interests as whoever is already in. They are not merit in any meaningful sense of word, just like call of duty is not merit or world of warcraft is not merit.

I am not saying that any of it is some horrible act or happens only in tech. It is not. Neither is it merit no matter how much tech people like to pretend real world is meritocracy.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#432

Post by Maken »

f4stjack wrote: post #390

The thing I don't get is, and probably I'll be downvoted to hell because of that, even though this guy lied about his past, his knowledge is solid. Nobody can guess what the interviewers will ask you and from what I've read from the text he aced those. If this is the tech business rolls what I see that it wants developers with a history, with connections, with "clout" so to speak; doesn't matter if you can help their…

I guess it is because nobody ever got fired for buying IBM.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#433

Post by Beltiras »

f4stjack wrote: post #390

The thing I don't get is, and probably I'll be downvoted to hell because of that, even though this guy lied about his past, his knowledge is solid. Nobody can guess what the interviewers will ask you and from what I've read from the text he aced those. If this is the tech business rolls what I see that it wants developers with a history, with connections, with "clout" so to speak; doesn't matter if you can help their…

You only get once chance at a first impression. This applicant took the chance that a lie was a good first impression. Lying on an application is just a non-starter.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#434

Post by tzahola »

andrewstuart wrote: post #72

I'm a recruiter. Three anecdotes come to mind for this topic: #1 I once sent out a coding test email to a candidate. Not long after I got an email back from this candidate saying "Hey bro could you do this test for me please." or words to that effect. Obviously mistakenly forwarded it back to me instead of to his bro who he wanted to do his coding test. #2 I definitely got catfished but it was by another recruiter wh…

http://rp-www.cs.usyd.edu.au/%7Escilect/sherlock/

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#435

Post by watwut »

tomcooks wrote: post #397
lvillani wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His knowledge is solid, sure, but would you really want to work with someone who has such a strong inclination to cheat and deceive? I certainly wouldn't.

He adapted to an unfavourable situation, studied hard, did his research well and passed multiple tests - I'd gladly work with someone like that

Such people make the homework, research well and then user result to blame you for their fault exactly when you cant defend yourself or claim your achievements for themselves.

That sort of behavior can be pretty poisonous for whole team.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#436

Post by badpun »

hfdgiutdryg wrote: post #46
amorphid wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're going to outright lie to my face & get caught, you'd better have a proof that you had discovered a brain tumor after having told the lie, pictures of the tumor being removed, and a doctor's note explaining "healthy now - no more liar liar pants on fire".

Why? Management lies to employees constantly. Sales lies to customers constantly. Why the sudden insistence on honesty?

It's good (profitable) for the company for management to lie to their employees. It's not good (profitable) for the company for employees to lie to managers.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#437

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

rando444 wrote: post #420
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the very least, I think pjc50's observation highlights that there is a certain inertia in some industries that perpetuates a bias toward one or the other gender. Edit: changed a couple of words to make my point clearer.

Well if we're doing anecdotes, I work for the second largest IT firm in my country, and the management is largely made up of women, and I don't believe any of them to be freemasons. Perhaps this observation has more to do with location and culture than it does industry.

Sorry, my point wasn't really about Freemasons in particular, but I'm too tired now to try to clarify.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#438

Post by aepiepaey »

watwut wrote: post #431
rando444 wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(1) Networking and building a reputation for yourself will always have value. (2) Most of the things that he's listed are merits. Being involved in his community, having a strong verifiable previous job history with good references, etc. (3) Having a good job history, making friends, and being involved in online and offline communities are not things limited to white males.

Speaking about meritocracy. 1.) We laughed, shook hands and they headhunted me away The headhunt started on very little information - basically on how he laugh and shakes of hand. Had likely proved himself later, but it was all was on instant first impression - where biases matter most. 2.) Freemason How is that related to merit in tech? Yes, similar "we have thing in common" bias happen everywhere (and may advantage…

> The headhunt started on very little information - basically on how he laugh and shakes of hand. Had likely proved himself later, but it was all was on instant first impression - where biases matter most.

No, they already had a previous relation: "[...] from the Oklahoma City-based ISP I'd started my career at and left in '96" (emphasis added). Given mrbill had worked for/with them (three years prior), they definitely had much more information than just a first impression.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#439

Post by drewmol »

pjc50 wrote: post #411
rando444 wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(1) Networking and building a reputation for yourself will always have value. (2) Most of the things that he's listed are merits. Being involved in his community, having a strong verifiable previous job history with good references, etc. (3) Having a good job history, making friends, and being involved in online and offline communities are not things limited to white males.

In re (3), the post specifically mentions the Masons, which traditionally is extremely exclusive, men-only, excludes Catholics, etc. They've opened up slightly in response to pressure, and there are some female freemasons, but it's still pretty exclusive.

>exclude Catholics,

>but it's still pretty exclusive.

Catholics are a juggernaut, the global leader in that market. I'd say it was required strategy in order to avoid a squeeze-out. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squeeze-out

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#440

Post by mettamage »

f4stjack wrote: post #390

The thing I don't get is, and probably I'll be downvoted to hell because of that, even though this guy lied about his past, his knowledge is solid. Nobody can guess what the interviewers will ask you and from what I've read from the text he aced those. If this is the tech business rolls what I see that it wants developers with a history, with connections, with "clout" so to speak; doesn't matter if you can help their…

I applaud that you give this comment. Your comment seems indeed controversial, but you gave it in a thoughtful manner and you dared to give it. This is what I like about HN: thoughtful comments that may be controversial but are relevant even at the risk of one's own reputation.

From my own limited interview experience: companies reject you for the silliest things, in my opinion and I have decided that I need to deceive in order for my value to be seen in the right manner. It might be the case I'm arrogant, but I also notice that people who had a computer science education at the same uni as I went to are the only ones to actually evaluate in the right way. Whenever I get interviewed by non CS people at startups they just evaluate it as I did some rote learning psychology-esque degree[1], which is next to useless according to them.

So yes, I should deceive those people in that I have more working experience than I do, because uni gave me part of that working experience but there is no chance in hell that they would believe that. I know this to be true because the jobs that I did get, I performed well at, according to the people who hired me.

And somehow people always seem to be a bit surprised. People always seem to be a bit surprised when a CS graduate in general works out. I just find it silly, CS in Amsterdam is not that math heavy and it is programming heavy, what do you expect?

[1] 50% of my psych. degree (2nd bachelor, I'm Dutch) required a lot of rote learning. One third of the degree was statistics / academic writing, the rest were electives.

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