Earlier quoted context omitted.
>someone who apparently otherwise would have been a great candidate Dishonesty is an intolerable trait. This person clearly wasn't a great candidate. Lying at work is just about the only thing I'll always fire somebody for.
Everyone is lying at work to some degree. That's what office politics is all about, even though it is not straight lying. How many times did my managers not "lie" to me by telling me that it is impossible for the company to give a raise or anything as a policy right now, while my colleague gets one one week later (sharing salary information is beautiful!)
I Got Catfished by a Candidate
331–340 of 662 posts
Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate
#332Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Yes, the law thanks, but i'm hoping for something more specific. like a us code or something. i'm skeptical that you're speaking to something that actually exists, but i'm happy to see evidence of what you're talking about. > You don’t get to enforce when and where a contractor works. i'm not sure what you mean by "enforce" exactly, other than perhaps you mean to say a contract is not allowed to stipulate that, for…
He's talking about the actual definition of contractor according to US law. If a person does not have the right to choose how, where, when, and by what means the work is done, they're not a contractor. https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employe...
your link even notes:
> There is no “magic” or set number of factors that “makes” the worker an employee or an independent contractor, and no one factor stands alone in making this determination. Also, factors which are relevant in one situation may not be relevant in another.
Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate
#333Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, I haven’t. Is dishonesty something you’d like to defend?
You've walked into work and told your boss that he was a fucking moron when you saw something that angered you immediately? Lieing about feelings is a basic human skill. If you never lied you would be a constant stream of unsociable behaviour that would get you shunned Minor lies are such a part of human society that it's a sign of some disorder if a child is actually incapable of lieing
Not sharing every thought you have does not make you a liar.
Everyone is not required (Thank God!) to reveal everything that crosses their mind in order to be truthful and honest.
You have a very warped definition of "dishonesty".
Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate
#334Earlier quoted context omitted.
>That's not lying; that's just normal social etiquette. That's the argument. Some amount of dishonesty is required to follow normal social etiquette. Saying I'm fine is expected even if you're not actually fine. We have cultural norms for what kind of dishonesty is acceptable. When you exceed those norms, you're lying. Politely laughing at an unfunny joke, and telling someone that their food is "interesting", fall we…
Expressions like the American greeting "How are you?" are examples of phatic expressions ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phatic_expression ), meaning that they are functional as opposed to communicative. Although they take the form of communicative statements, in this case an interrogative, they are really not. Understanding this distinction was very helpful for me, letting me answer "fine" with no ethical concern wh…
You can chose not to be polite, but you will acquire a reputation. Refusing to play the expected social game will have negative consequences.
You clearly have no problem playing the "I'm fine" game. I'm not sure why you have a problem with the "answer the inconsequential question the way people expect it to be answered" game.
> If I don't want to be honest with whatever level of tact, I may avoid directly answering. I won't choose to lie to them.
If you avoid answering, the person asking will assume you hated it. You might as well just say so.
>I don't agree with you if your view is that my unwillingness to declare my feelings about their food (omission) is equivalent to telling a lie about my feelings about their food.
A moral code that makes harmful omissions perfectly fine, but benign untruths immoral is, to me at least, very bizarre.
Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate
#335Earlier quoted context omitted.
I find that people who work really hard to convince people that "everyone lies" are usually the biggest liars. So my advice: Stop lying, and stop trying to normalize lying. To address the examples in the link given: 1. "Where do you see yourself in five years’ time?". There are honest ways of answering this question, or at least not-dishonest answers, that don't entail volunteering information that won't help you. 2.…
You're completely ignoring misleading people through telling factually correct statements. If you ignore the intent of what you want people to believe, you're going to wind up being less honest than people who focus on that but don't need to have every tiny detail be exactly true.
Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate
#336Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you read the listicle I was responding to, the "how are you?" "fine" interaction is the only clear-cut example of that. Even then, there's a distinction between non-literal communication and dishonesty. Even then , if a casual acquaintance asks me how I'm doing and I'm not in the middle of some sort of crisis that I would reasonably expect them to care about, the honest answer is to say that I am fine because my c…
It sounds like you are arguing with a concept you believe I'm representing rather than what I actually wrote.
Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate
#337Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, it's mainly a legal/libel issue. The code is if they just verify someone worked there, it's usually bad (without saying they were bad). If they say they were great, they were great.
There's no code. If they say they were great, they were possibly great. There are so many reasons for a terse confirmation of employment. Foremost would be that you're talking to HR and they're following a fixed process. A process that exists for a reason: Even a positive review with good intentions could be framed as injurious to the candidate's prospects.
Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate
#338Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've heard a story about an older lady who was confused and needed work done on her porch.. she contacted the local Masonic lodge for help.. and in a few days, a bunch of the guys showed up at her house and rebuilt her porch for her. Stuff like that is what we do. My Lodge takes donated bicycles from local stores (Wal-Mart, etc, where they were display models and can't be sold as new), fixes them up, and we donate th…
I know only a few. One installs floors when they need an extra hand. One drives a Maserati. I am thinking about applying. You have to write three letters, the first two are ignored.
The "new guys" or people who are interested hang out in our cafeteria, get a tour of the building, etc, and just ask questions, get to know the guys, and so forth. We encourage guys to explore different Lodges and find the one they feel fits them best (each group of men has a different personality and so forth). After hanging out with us for a while, if we think they'll be a good fit, we'll send them home with a "petition" (application).
The petition is filled out sorta like a job application, and permission is given to run background checks (because they might end up as the lodge Secretary and in charge of money and such someday), etc. In addition, a petition must be signed by three Masons basically saying "I have faith in this applicant".
Once a petition is submitted, at the next Stated Meeting, the Worshipful Master (president of the lodge) assigns an "Investigative Committee" of three men to interview the candidate separately. Usually this happens at their home, so we can also talk to their spouse/significant other, see if being a member of the Lodge is going to cause any hardship at home, and so forth.
Once the Investigative Committe has made a decision, at the next stated meeting they present a "positive" or "negative". If negative, no further action is taken and the candidate can't re-apply for membership within a year (I think, I'd have to look it up). If positive, the members of the lodge vote on the candidate.
Voting is done via "secret ballot", basically a wooden box with two chambers. One is full of black and white balls, with a hole leading to the second chamber. Each person votes anonymously by going up to the box, taking a ball, and putting it in the chamber. White balls mean "yes", black balls mean "no" (this is where the term "blackballed" comes from). The voting box is then shown to the WM and the Deacons. If all white, "the result is favorable", the candidate has been Elected to Receive the Degrees of Masonry, and they're contacted with the good news. If there's a single black ball, or some sort of contention, there VERY OCCASSIONALLY might be a re-vote. Otherwise the candidate cannot repetition a Texas lodge for at least a year. If more than three black balls are present, then that candidate cannot ever reapply to become a Mason, because it means that at least three people thought badly enough of him to "blackball" him from the fraternity.
Once someone is notified that they've been elected to receive the degrees, the next step will be to schedule their initiation ceremony and collect their degree fees. (Lodges collect fees for each degree ceremony, to cover things like your formal apron, a Bible or other book presented when you become a Master Mason, etc, and just to keep the lights on). Once someone becomes a Master Mason, then it's just a yearly dues payment. I think ours is now $175, but I got in before a price hike a few years ago and bought an "endowed", or lifetime membership. I paid under $1K at the time and that basically covered my dues until I die or move to a different state - as mentioned before, Masonry in the US only goes up to the state level, and each state "recognizes" the others as official.
Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate
#339Earlier quoted context omitted.
You ever politely laugh at something you really didn't find all that funny? Human social interactions are built on small deceptions. Some amount of dishonesty is required if you want to avoid being an awkward social pariah. If you are incapable of any social dishonesty whatsoever, you will quickly be labeled an inappropriate, self righteous asshole. Of course there is a limit to those social norms. Dishonesty that ex…
"Some amount of dishonesty is required if you want to avoid being an awkward social pariah." Actually that's not true. It is possible to be completely sincere, yet tactful. And you can do it in a way that doesn't come off as self-righteous. I will grant you that it is definitely more rare than it should be, but that doesn't make the opposite a requirement.
I completely and utterly disagree with this. There are too many social interactions centered around a shared expectation of dishonesty.
If your partner's grandmother asks you how the food was, if you answer with anything less than "great", regardless of how tactfully you do so, there will be negative social consequences.
Even in the rare case that the grandmother wants your honest opinion, the rest of the family have expectations about how you are supposed to respond.
Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate
#340I know a guy who catfished Forbes for years about his net worth and parlayed that into a sweet job in federal government with lifetime benefits! [1] [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/trump-lied-to-me-abou...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2017/11/07/the-cas...