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I Got Catfished by a Candidate
321–330 of 662 posts
Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate
#322Earlier quoted context omitted.
I find that people who work really hard to convince people that "everyone lies" are usually the biggest liars. So my advice: Stop lying, and stop trying to normalize lying. To address the examples in the link given: 1. "Where do you see yourself in five years’ time?". There are honest ways of answering this question, or at least not-dishonest answers, that don't entail volunteering information that won't help you. 2.…
>That's not lying; that's just normal social etiquette. That's the argument. Some amount of dishonesty is required to follow normal social etiquette. Saying I'm fine is expected even if you're not actually fine. We have cultural norms for what kind of dishonesty is acceptable. When you exceed those norms, you're lying. Politely laughing at an unfunny joke, and telling someone that their food is "interesting", fall we…
Expressions like the American greeting "How are you?" are examples of phatic expressions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phatic_expression), meaning that they are functional as opposed to communicative. Although they take the form of communicative statements, in this case an interrogative, they are really not. Understanding this distinction was very helpful for me, letting me answer "fine" with no ethical concern when asked this sort of question in quotidian encounters such as checking out of a grocery store. I don't think there is any dishonesty in that. Again, the speaker is not really asking the question, but performing a social ritual, and they neither expect nor wish a reply to its literal form.
It's quite different if someone asks a real question such as the example you give about the quality of their food. If I don't want to be honest with whatever level of tact, I may avoid directly answering. I won't choose to lie to them. I don't agree with you if your view is that my unwillingness to declare my feelings about their food (omission) is equivalent to telling a lie about my feelings about their food.
Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate
#323Earlier quoted context omitted.
I find that people who work really hard to convince people that "everyone lies" are usually the biggest liars. So my advice: Stop lying, and stop trying to normalize lying. To address the examples in the link given: 1. "Where do you see yourself in five years’ time?". There are honest ways of answering this question, or at least not-dishonest answers, that don't entail volunteering information that won't help you. 2.…
>That's not lying; that's just normal social etiquette. That's the argument. Some amount of dishonesty is required to follow normal social etiquette. Saying I'm fine is expected even if you're not actually fine. We have cultural norms for what kind of dishonesty is acceptable. When you exceed those norms, you're lying. Politely laughing at an unfunny joke, and telling someone that their food is "interesting", fall we…
If you read the listicle I was responding to, the "how are you?" "fine" interaction is the only clear-cut example of that. Even then, there's a distinction between non-literal communication and dishonesty.
Even then, if a casual acquaintance asks me how I'm doing and I'm not in the middle of some sort of crisis that I would reasonably expect them to care about, the honest answer is to say that I am fine because my casual mood swings are not what they are asking me about. If it's a close friend or a counselor or someone like that, I should expand more. That's just normal context.
There's a weird fundamentalist notion of "honesty" that implies that anything short of continuously broadcasting all of your thoughts to everyone around you is "dishonest". Perhaps that's just innocent literalism, but I think a lot of that is, itself, a dishonest attempt to establish false equivalencies between submitting a completely fictitious resume on the one hand, and restraining yourself from barging into your boss's office to tell him he's a complete idiot every time you feel cheesed off (cf. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17079014).
Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate
#324Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Their caste system makes it hard for “others” to be people, and we all know what happens when you dehumanize others. Since I have little experience with outsourcing to India, the implication here is mysterious to me. What are you getting at?
Let me relate a true story, and then discuss some implications. After dinner one night, many years ago, an Indian co-worker and I started discussing politics. The Indian wanted to know why we didn’t nuke Pakistan in our hunt for bin Laden. I said that the fallout would kill tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of his countrymen. His response? “They’re excess people.” If you don’t care about others, then you will use t…
Sweeping generalizations and thinly veiled racism is ok on HN?
Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate
#325Maybe the author should evaluate _why_ they got catfished. Recruiting processes are so convoluted and hard to break through, that someone who apparently otherwise would have been a great candidate, had to lie to get an interview. Was a good candidate really only one that had worked at the managers previous employer? How many great candidates are companies missing out on because of arbitrary filters?
> How many great candidates are companies missing out on because of arbitrary filters?
A hell of a lot. And then they proclaim that there is a major shortage of workers.
Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate
#326Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’s not really what I’m saying at all. Every lie you tell jeopardises the trust you have amongst others. You might not get caught, and if you do, you may not damage the trust irreparably depending on the magnitude of the lie. I’m also saying that a workplace cannot be functional without trust, and that a workplace that tolerates dishonesty will invariably erode it. So unless you want to exist in such a workplace,…
You ever politely laugh at something you really didn't find all that funny? Human social interactions are built on small deceptions. Some amount of dishonesty is required if you want to avoid being an awkward social pariah. If you are incapable of any social dishonesty whatsoever, you will quickly be labeled an inappropriate, self righteous asshole. Of course there is a limit to those social norms. Dishonesty that ex…
"Some amount of dishonesty is required if you want to avoid being an awkward social pariah."
Actually that's not true. It is possible to be completely sincere, yet tactful. And you can do it in a way that doesn't come off as self-righteous. I will grant you that it is definitely more rare than it should be, but that doesn't make the opposite a requirement.
Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate
#327Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, the law . You don’t get to enforce when and where a contractor works. They can perhaps agree to it to keep a good relationship, but they are not obligated, and if they change their mind the only thing you can do is fire them. You also don’t get to choose how they do their job. If they agreed to do something for a given price, they can do it how they see fit, even hiring a subcontractor. Don’t like it? Don’t hire…
> Yes, the law thanks, but i'm hoping for something more specific. like a us code or something. i'm skeptical that you're speaking to something that actually exists, but i'm happy to see evidence of what you're talking about. > You don’t get to enforce when and where a contractor works. i'm not sure what you mean by "enforce" exactly, other than perhaps you mean to say a contract is not allowed to stipulate that, for…
He's talking about the actual definition of contractor according to US law. If a person does not have the right to choose how, where, when, and by what means the work is done, they're not a contractor.
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employe...
Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate
#328Earlier quoted context omitted.
You ever politely laugh at something you really didn't find all that funny? Human social interactions are built on small deceptions. Some amount of dishonesty is required if you want to avoid being an awkward social pariah. If you are incapable of any social dishonesty whatsoever, you will quickly be labeled an inappropriate, self righteous asshole. Of course there is a limit to those social norms. Dishonesty that ex…
I’m very worried that so many people here seem to think it’s impossible to be empathetic with people without being dishonest.
Surely you've had this conversation numerous times throughout your life with people who hold this opinion. You clearly disagree with it, but it's common enough that you shouldn't be surprised by it.
Philosophers have debated this question for millennia--it's nothing new.
>empathetic with people without being dishonest
Empathy and honesty are orthogonal.
Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate
#329Earlier quoted context omitted.
>That's not lying; that's just normal social etiquette. That's the argument. Some amount of dishonesty is required to follow normal social etiquette. Saying I'm fine is expected even if you're not actually fine. We have cultural norms for what kind of dishonesty is acceptable. When you exceed those norms, you're lying. Politely laughing at an unfunny joke, and telling someone that their food is "interesting", fall we…
If you read the listicle I was responding to, the "how are you?" "fine" interaction is the only clear-cut example of that. Even then, there's a distinction between non-literal communication and dishonesty. Even then , if a casual acquaintance asks me how I'm doing and I'm not in the middle of some sort of crisis that I would reasonably expect them to care about, the honest answer is to say that I am fine because my c…
It sounds like you are arguing with a concept you believe I'm representing rather than what I actually wrote.
Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate
#330Earlier quoted context omitted.
this is not a brag but I have never lied in an interview so I have to assume plenty of others have never lied. I have not exaggerated either or told white lies during an interview. Not saying I never lie but never in an interview. If I don’t know sonething I say so. I might follow with “but I can probably figure it out” or “but I think it’s ...” or “I don’t know off the top of my head but it’s the type of thing I loo…
I don’t lie either, but rarely get job offers, so I should probably start.
I get plenty but I'm willing to believe much of that was luck early in my career when I had no "job" experience. Met the right people. Was at the right place at the right time. Got lucky my parents supported my hobby. Etc.
On the other hand I made tons of personal projects in junior high and high school so I had plenty to show during my first interviews.