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I Got Catfished by a Candidate

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Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#141

Post by asveikau »

hfdgiutdryg wrote: post #46
amorphid wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're going to outright lie to my face & get caught, you'd better have a proof that you had discovered a brain tumor after having told the lie, pictures of the tumor being removed, and a doctor's note explaining "healthy now - no more liar liar pants on fire".

Why? Management lies to employees constantly. Sales lies to customers constantly. Why the sudden insistence on honesty?

With comments like this, can you believe it that people say Big Tech has an ethics problem?

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#142

Post by justherefortart »

jdietrich wrote: post #71
salvar wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Standard in the US maybe, but I've never even heard of anything like this in the UK. I'm sure it happens, but I will eat my hat if it's fairly standard.

Most larger companies require references to at least be checked by HR. Employers have a duty of care to provide accurate references for their former employees. There's a non-trivial risk that a manager could provide a bad or indifferent reference simply because of a personal grudge, which the company could be held liable for. http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKHL/1994/7.html

I've only had one company and 2 government jobs check my references in 25 years in the field (feds were checking for clearance, so required).

I call my references to see if they were contacted after I've been offered positions in the past it's amazing how little it happens.

I don't check references because I don't give a shit. You're either giving people that like you, or why would you be giving them at all. If you're still employed, calling that person's current job is a huge no-no (could cost them their employment).

What the fuck is so hard about just figuring out if you like someone and hiring them. Telling them fully what goals you expect them to achieve and giving them the tools to do the job. Then if they're not successful, letting them go.

Oh yeah, you'd have to be a good employee yourself and work for a good company to do that.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#143

Post by ironjunkie »

ryandrake wrote: post #66
deedubaya wrote: post #7

Maybe the author should evaluate _why_ they got catfished. Recruiting processes are so convoluted and hard to break through, that someone who apparently otherwise would have been a great candidate, had to lie to get an interview. Was a good candidate really only one that had worked at the managers previous employer? How many great candidates are companies missing out on because of arbitrary filters?

I wholeheartedly agree. The behavior itself should NOT be condoned but it is arguably understandable. Given the increasing pickiness of employers, candidate screening based on keyword and credential filtering, focus on who you know over what you know, and opaque/arbitrary hiring processes, I’m surprised we don’t see more of this. It’s no longer enough to be a good candidate. One needs to check every checkbox, AND be…

In any other profession I would agree with the complete nonsense going on with hiring, but at least in IT (and at least in the bay area), there is such a demand for engineers that I don't see this going on too much except at some of the big shops (Google, Facebook etc) which are frontended with incompetent recruiters that only look at keywords.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#144

Post by johnwh »

Backdoor references are very unethical in my opinion. Beyond the fact that you are telling a third party about someone’s job search without the searcher’s consent, you can also get a very biased opinion.

My wife was fired from a job at a well known University in the area. She had 2 bosses in a year, one of them twice after coming back from prolonged mental health leave. Within a month of coming back my wife’s boss had a long term relationship end which lead to my wife being blamed for everything and anything, and was then subsequently fired.

On the other hand, my wife has excelled at her current job. She has been promoted 4 times at this point to a director level position and is extremely well respected. If they were to call her previous boss (who has had multiple people promoted over her in the past 2.5 years), the review would be awful and not reflective of my wife’s work.

You know what would have caught this without any effort what-so-ever? Calling the company and verifying dates of employment. It is part of every job application, and is expected.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#145

Post by darpa_escapee »

BadThink6655321 wrote: post #115
maxxxxx wrote: post #78

I don't think we should use such stories as a reason to make the hiring process even more paranoid. In general people are pretty honest so I wouldn't like to see them having to jump through even more hoops because of a few fraudsters. Advice number 1 is probably best : "Trust your gut". If something doesn't make sense it's worth clearing that up.

Depends on the culture of the people. I have experienced numerous instances where an Indian candidate is not who they claim to be. Person X is hired, person Y shows up. Person X conducts the phone interview for person Y. And so on. And this has happened for not just me.

Does person X show up to person Y's on-site interviews?

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#146

Post by ironjunkie »

bduerst wrote: post #57
hfdgiutdryg wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Management lies to employees constantly. Sales lies to customers constantly. Why the sudden insistence on honesty?

So it's okay to lose an arm if you've already lost a leg? Because honesty is better than dishonesty?

Ahah, that's what management tells you. While telling you at the same time that you shouldn't ask for a raise as they don't give those out this year.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#147

Post by hndl »

johnwh wrote: post #144

Backdoor references are very unethical in my opinion. Beyond the fact that you are telling a third party about someone’s job search without the searcher’s consent, you can also get a very biased opinion. My wife was fired from a job at a well known University in the area. She had 2 bosses in a year, one of them twice after coming back from prolonged mental health leave. Within a month of coming back my wife’s boss ha…

How does this work in the case when you're still employed at a current place and a looking to make a change?

Edit - I think you mean doing a verification after an offer is put out.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#148

Post by organicmultiloc »

You can call it "catfishing" like you just captured a criminal mastermind, but people of color generally don't have the reference game down and are forced into doing stuff like this in order to avoid having their application thrown in the garbage.

References are more of a "how many connected white people do you know" check than anything else. If you always had references to call on before you even finished school than you probably won't even understand the world of people who did not, and the people who didn't get that first internship and have no way to break in short of fraud.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#149

Post by vkou »

maxxxxx wrote: post #82
deedubaya wrote: post #4

You'll never be able to trust a candidate who lies. Blatantly lying to a potential employer will never work out well in the long run. Just don't do it. Programmers are lucky in that they can take code they've written, and say "see, here's my proof that I can do the job".Other types of jobs (like sales), however, are reputation based, and you damn well better make sure the opinion of the person who is vouching for you…

"You'll never be able to trust a candidate who lies." This also goes the other way. I have had companies lie to me about salary structure or working conditions and it definitely hurt my loyalty when I found out that I had been lied to.

You're supposed to lie in socially acceptable ways. Preferably ones where both parties know the other is lying.

Your boss lies to you that he can't give you a raise, you lie to the hiring manager that you won't take the job without a 10% bump in pay, your VP lies that the merger won't affect headcount, etc.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#150

Post by BadThink6655321 »

darpa_escapee wrote: post #145
BadThink6655321 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the culture of the people. I have experienced numerous instances where an Indian candidate is not who they claim to be. Person X is hired, person Y shows up. Person X conducts the phone interview for person Y. And so on. And this has happened for not just me.

Does person X show up to person Y's on-site interviews?

Not in my experience. But doing an on-site interview in India is the exception, not the rule. (Note: I’ve done both). And when an “on-site” interview is done, make sure you’re the one who is on-site, and not an Indian agent. Their caste system makes it hard for “others” to be people, and we all know what happens when you dehumanize others.
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