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I Got Catfished by a Candidate

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Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#61

Post by mfringel »

gumby wrote: post #31

> backdoor reference checks aren’t always considered kosher by everyone ?? These are the most important references. Many excellent candidates won't have a back connection but when they are possible they can make an important difference two ways: One is the way described here (or, "this person was OK but doesn't sound like they would work out for the kind of thing you want -- that was where they failed with us too.").…

If they're discreetly seeking other employment, you have now blown their cover. A couple of things about that:

1. "If they're looking for another job, they can have no guarantee of secrecy." -- Sure, but is it your job to out someone?

2. "I need a second opinion on their references, just in case they're giving me bad ones." -- So.... what exactly is your threat model, here? "Catfished by a candidate" stories are interesting because they're rare.

3. "If I tell other people they're looking, I can reduce their leverage by making things awkward for them at their current job." -- Hey look! I found the sociopath!

Bonus Thing: It's a small industry, and people don't go away. You've now marked yourself as someone who can't be trusted with knowledge about someone's else career choices.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#62

Post by huebnerob »

deedubaya wrote: post #7

Maybe the author should evaluate _why_ they got catfished. Recruiting processes are so convoluted and hard to break through, that someone who apparently otherwise would have been a great candidate, had to lie to get an interview. Was a good candidate really only one that had worked at the managers previous employer? How many great candidates are companies missing out on because of arbitrary filters?

His work history is materially important to his evaluation as a candidate. He wasn't great in spite of his lies, he was great because of them.

Answering a few questions in an interview is just a gut check. The real yardstick is how well a candidate worked for other companies in the past.

Anyone who's tried to get their foot in the door of an industry with an entry level position can attest to this. Even the smartest, most charismatic candidates give employers pause when they're untested.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#63

Post by salvar »

hfdgiutdryg wrote: post #46
amorphid wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're going to outright lie to my face & get caught, you'd better have a proof that you had discovered a brain tumor after having told the lie, pictures of the tumor being removed, and a doctor's note explaining "healthy now - no more liar liar pants on fire".

Why? Management lies to employees constantly. Sales lies to customers constantly. Why the sudden insistence on honesty?

Do you feel disrespected when management lies to you?

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#64

Post by lkrubner »

bduerst wrote: post #47
lkrubner wrote: post #21

On the upside, the person who was trying to get a job seems very good at selling. Certainly, they seem good at selling themselves. If this is for a sales job, then the energy they showed should count in their favor, and the work they put in, as well as the easy social graces that charmed everyone. I've known honest salespeople, but generally sales, as a profession, does not reward complete honesty. The important thin…

Why? They'd eventually deceive the new customers just to make the sale, even going so far to fabricate facts and people just to do it. That's not the type of person you want bringing on new accounts at your company.

If they engage in outright fraud, then they are criminals, and they've probably been criminals in the past. That's why I emphasized the one thing to really check for is whether they are hiding a criminal past.

At one point, when I was running my own business, I worked with an alcoholic who was a good salesman. I knew that he could be toxic, so I structured an agreement such that I kept some distance between him and my company. I basically just offered him a generous finders fee. I told him if he could bring in business, I would give him a percentage. We got at least one big contract because of him.

I'm not saying that every company can or should work with such people. Every company is different. But if you know the circumstances of your company, and you think you can get useful work out of someone who has some known problems, then it is possible to structure a deal such that your company wins.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#65

Post by deedubaya »

huebnerob wrote: post #62
deedubaya wrote: post #7

Maybe the author should evaluate _why_ they got catfished. Recruiting processes are so convoluted and hard to break through, that someone who apparently otherwise would have been a great candidate, had to lie to get an interview. Was a good candidate really only one that had worked at the managers previous employer? How many great candidates are companies missing out on because of arbitrary filters?

His work history is materially important to his evaluation as a candidate. He wasn't great in spite of his lies, he was great because of them. Answering a few questions in an interview is just a gut check. The real yardstick is how well a candidate worked for other companies in the past. Anyone who's tried to get their foot in the door of an industry with an entry level position can attest to this. Even the smartest,…

Yes, work history is almost always materially important, however, if you're using it as a gatekeeper, you're going to have a hard time hiring; especially if it's work history at a specific company.

I would have a hard time believing this candidate was the only one who wasn't entry level. The fact that the catfish progressed so far with that specific fake reference had to be materially important, especially when complaining about difficulty hiring prior to this candidate.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#66

Post by ryandrake »

deedubaya wrote: post #7

Maybe the author should evaluate _why_ they got catfished. Recruiting processes are so convoluted and hard to break through, that someone who apparently otherwise would have been a great candidate, had to lie to get an interview. Was a good candidate really only one that had worked at the managers previous employer? How many great candidates are companies missing out on because of arbitrary filters?

I wholeheartedly agree. The behavior itself should NOT be condoned but it is arguably understandable. Given the increasing pickiness of employers, candidate screening based on keyword and credential filtering, focus on who you know over what you know, and opaque/arbitrary hiring processes, I’m surprised we don’t see more of this. It’s no longer enough to be a good candidate. One needs to check every checkbox, AND be a star showman/orator under pressure in order to get past the multitude of gates blocking one from gainful employment.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#67

Post by dmitrygr »

volkk wrote: post #59
hfdgiutdryg wrote: post #54

Maybe he would have been great and our best performing AE. Maybe he wouldn’t have even known how to log into Salesforce. Or, even worse, maybe he would have been dishonest about something down the line. Whatever the outcome, better to suss it out early. So, the person appeared competent and capable, and "may have been our best performing AE" but it's "better to suss it out early" by immediately rejecting him? Sounds…

egos set aside, once you know the person youre looking to hire has been lying about most of his past to the point of making up email addresses and getting his buddy to speak on the phone for him as a reference, i dont see how you can look past that and actually still hire them.

  > has been lying
I believe in sales it is called "selling"

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#68

Post by justizin »

AndrewGaspar wrote: post #36
crescentfresh wrote: post #33

The place I'm at now forbids employees from being references for past employees (or current employees discreetly seeking other employment). Is this normal? It would have prevented "Jim" or anyone else at ACME Corp from being a reference to catfish-er, so requests for a reference from the company would have been denied right off the bat. That would have made it harder to spot the fake.

I've never heard of anybody doing this. Sounds pretty messed up to me.

This was the policy when I worked at Rackspace circa 2001-2004, they would only confirm employment.

In the bay area, I often can't even confirm employment because the company has gone out of business, my manager was fired after I voluntarily left, etc...

Literally everything about this story raises the hairs on the back of my neck except for giving false contact info for a manager the recruiter knew by name - esp the, "trust your gut", stuff, which is basically saying:

  Embrace your implicit bias.
I have managers who I can't get in touch with, one of whom I've had to tell several recruiters, "This dude wouldn't take my calls when I worked for him, he pretty much just ignores everyone." In those cases, however, I do my best to do a LinkedIn connect and provide a company email.

  "Feel free to contact jackass@shittycompany.com and see if you have better luck than I do."
Just because you are (MAYBE) a manager who cares enough to give references, don't assume anyone else is. Many of my past managers are pissed that I bailed on them, because they were shitty managers, but I have 20y in the industry and in many cases that meant more than them.

It's a tough game to play when you don't want to be a manager, yourself.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#69

Post by chunger »

AlexCoventry wrote: post #45

What is an "outbound hunter mentality"?

Cold calling, usually.

It means that they're not only working leads that come in from marketing campaigns, website, & emails (these are inbound, initiated by a potential customer). Typically means picking up the phone and calling strangers to try and sell them things (initiated by you - outbound).

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#70

Post by SystemOut »

dewiz wrote: post #12

I was hoping to find out from the story why this catfish lied in the first place. If they passed the interview so well they must be someway good.

Industrial espionage or other type of work to gain access to confidential information is one that hasn't been brought up.
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