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Ask HN: Is this the right paid?

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Re: Ask HN: Is this the right paid?

#11

Post by byoung2 »

helveticaman wrote: post #8
byoung2 wrote: post #4

I can't say what's normal in Houston, as I've only lived and worked in Los Angeles. Out here a developer with Java or .NET experience like you describe would easily start at $85k base at the companies I've worked for over the last 4 years. There would also be signing and annual bonuses and if you're good, significant raises each year. Am I starting to wonder if I get ripped off for staying here and not asking for a b…

I'd add the only caveat is that bouncing around too much (like never holding a job down for more than a year, doesn't sound like you) can turn people off.

I've worked for 4 companies in 5 years (avg of 15 months per employer), and it doesn't seem to bother new employers. I can always spin it as "we finished our one year roadmap and I'm looking for a challenge that my current company can't provide." Besides, at each company I've worked for, the average lifespan of a developer seems to be about one year on average, 2 max.

If and when it does become a problem (i.e. interviewers start saying "this pattern looks disturbing"), the worst that happens is that it gets harder to get new job offers, and I stay at my current job a little longer, knowing that I got an average of 19% per year in pay increases while the average Joe (if he's lucky) got 5% per year, or in the OP's case 2.5% every other year.

Re: Ask HN: Is this the right paid?

#12

Post by blah123 »

mgkimsal wrote: post #10
blah123 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry I missed it. I've been working as programmer since 2003 in my 20s. About jumping tech I'm not really jumping around either. I really like both Java and .NET development. I've led numerous java server side projects. I could safely assume I'm above average in my java skillset.

'jumping around' wasn't me being derogatory - just how some employers would rather have someone with, say, 6 years of deep JEE experience rather than 6 years of mixed Java/.Net/etc experienced mixed together. For some positions, that makes sense, and for others, that requirement may not make sense.

So for someone has 10 years in C/C++ and 5 in Java, 3 in .NET you can't really tell them that they don't have deep experience in Java or .NET. They could just have 15 years in C/C++ plus 5 in Java and 3 in .NET for the total of 15 years of their development career. They have exposed to a wide range of technologies required to do their jobs. What I mean is while doing Java for most my development career I am also doing .NET for production project! It's not like I do Java for 4 years then stop and develop .NET solely for 3 years.

Re: Ask HN: Is this the right paid?

#13

Post by mgkimsal »

blah123 wrote: post #12
mgkimsal wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'jumping around' wasn't me being derogatory - just how some employers would rather have someone with, say, 6 years of deep JEE experience rather than 6 years of mixed Java/.Net/etc experienced mixed together. For some positions, that makes sense, and for others, that requirement may not make sense.

So for someone has 10 years in C/C++ and 5 in Java, 3 in .NET you can't really tell them that they don't have deep experience in Java or .NET. They could just have 15 years in C/C++ plus 5 in Java and 3 in .NET for the total of 15 years of their development career. They have exposed to a wide range of technologies required to do their jobs. What I mean is while doing Java for most my development career I am also doin…

Coupla points:

A) you only presented a select bit of info and asked if it was a decent salary

B) my experiences over the past 15-20 years have been that recruiters and HR people often overlook someone who doesn't have deep experience with one particular tech.

C) I would question someone who's counting 15 years of C experience while also counting the same time as doing .net. If you were doing the majority of those 3 years in .net, then say 3 years of .net, 5 of java and 7 of C. It's still a 15 year career, showing advancement, etc.

If you've got 15 years of progressive advancement with a variety of tech at that level, and you're concerned about money/pay, go freelance/consulting.

I'm not saying it's right or good, just what my impressions have been working with hiring managers, HR peeps and recruiters. In some cases diversity of experience is something they look for, and in others it's not.

Re: Ask HN: Is this the right paid?

#15

Post by AmberShah »

I'm in Houston and know about the pay here (as both a programmer and a hiring manager). I'd say you're comfortably paid but on the low end. It depends on what industry you are in as well. For example, in the medical industry that would be about right, but finances and energy can do better. Walk in and ask for a 15K raise. If they don't give it to you, you can get at least 10K more on the market right now.

Re: Ask HN: Is this the right paid?

#16

Post by AmberShah »

byoung2 wrote: post #4

I can't say what's normal in Houston, as I've only lived and worked in Los Angeles. Out here a developer with Java or .NET experience like you describe would easily start at $85k base at the companies I've worked for over the last 4 years. There would also be signing and annual bonuses and if you're good, significant raises each year. Am I starting to wonder if I get ripped off for staying here and not asking for a b…

Signing bonuses are basically non-existant in Houston. Annual bonuses are common but that depends highly on the industry. Both the financial and energy industries have taken a big hit in the past few years and they are the lifeblood of the Houston economy, so while layoffs are not that common, bonuses are way down. Not painting a gloom and doom scenario, just saying if you're here, expect all your payment to be in salary/benefits.

Re: Ask HN: Is this the right paid?

#17

Post by blah123 »

AmberShah wrote: post #15

I'm in Houston and know about the pay here (as both a programmer and a hiring manager). I'd say you're comfortably paid but on the low end. It depends on what industry you are in as well. For example, in the medical industry that would be about right, but finances and energy can do better. Walk in and ask for a 15K raise. If they don't give it to you, you can get at least 10K more on the market right now.

Thanks I make sure will ask in my next review

Re: Ask HN: Is this the right paid?

#19

Post by malandrew »

BerislavLopac wrote: post #6
byoung2 wrote: post #4

I can't say what's normal in Houston, as I've only lived and worked in Los Angeles. Out here a developer with Java or .NET experience like you describe would easily start at $85k base at the companies I've worked for over the last 4 years. There would also be signing and annual bonuses and if you're good, significant raises each year. Am I starting to wonder if I get ripped off for staying here and not asking for a b…

I'm pretty sure Mark Suster would like to have a word with you... ;)

That was one of the only Mark Suster articles that I disagreed with. He made very valid points, but the truth is that since the IBM layoff of '93, there is no such thing as vertical loyalty anymore. The only loyalty that matters anymore is horizontal loyalty to your co-workers. Anyone can get the axe the moment a manager needs to meet quarterly or yearly earnings figures.

Someone with a high amount of reciprocated horizontal loyalty can be of much greater value (and greater danger) to companies. When you hire someone with great horizontal loyalty, you get to tap into their entire network of former co-workers and they can literally build out an entire new department in your company overnight because they can bring with them all the right people. Unfortunately, this works both ways as these people can also take them all from you overnight as well.

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