Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why are so many programmers arrogant?

programmers.stackexchange.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–98 of 98 posts

Re: Why are so many programmers arrogant?

#91

Post by Mz »

gruseom wrote: post #87
Mz wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a fine line between confidence and arrogance. And if you know for a fact that you are right, it can be difficult to back down, even in the face of enormous social pressure. I'm not comfortable with saying that arrogance and stubbornness about the truth is a virtue, but I would say that someone who is sincerely devoted to pursuing the truth and sharing it is at high risk of being viewed as arrogant an…

Now I'm curious. What have you done that people believed couldn't be done at all?

Got well. (Or at least healthier. There is still room for improvement, which I am working on. I waffle between how I refer to it.)

http://www.healthgazelle.com

Re: Why are so many programmers arrogant?

#92

Post by j_baker »

Mz wrote: post #81
j_baker wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this. A lot of people probably consider me arrogant and stubborn. Honestly, I don't care though. Arrogance and stubborn are only flaws when you're wrong . On the other hand, being arrogant and stubborn about the truth is a virtue in my opinion.

I think there is a fine line between confidence and arrogance. And if you know for a fact that you are right, it can be difficult to back down, even in the face of enormous social pressure. I'm not comfortable with saying that arrogance and stubbornness about the truth is a virtue, but I would say that someone who is sincerely devoted to pursuing the truth and sharing it is at high risk of being viewed as arrogant an…

You're probably right, but saying that stubbornness can be good is my tactic for dealing with people who think I'm stubborn. It moves the conversation from what they think of me personally to whether I'm right or wrong.

In regards to what other people accuse you of, it's usually them projecting. In other words, the person who accused you of being an egomaniac could be avoiding fears that they themselves are being an egomaniac. Or the person who calls you a liar may secretly be afraid that they're not trustworthy.

Regardless, I've found experience to be the best teacher. I've learned not to be shy when it comes time to say "I told you so". It sucks, but you leave people the option to continue to underestimate you if you don't.

Re: Why are so many programmers arrogant?

#93

Post by gruseom »

Mz wrote: post #91
gruseom wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now I'm curious. What have you done that people believed couldn't be done at all?

Got well. (Or at least healthier. There is still room for improvement, which I am working on. I waffle between how I refer to it.) http://www.healthgazelle.com

Good for you. I admire people who take responsibility that way. Our "health care system" (more properly termed "disease management industry") is so stacked against this that it requires genuine struggle. It's not surprising that you would be accused of lying, either; that's cognitive dissonance 101. Not ideal, but still a good trade.

Re: Why are so many programmers arrogant?

#94

Post by Mz »

j_baker wrote: post #92
Mz wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a fine line between confidence and arrogance. And if you know for a fact that you are right, it can be difficult to back down, even in the face of enormous social pressure. I'm not comfortable with saying that arrogance and stubbornness about the truth is a virtue, but I would say that someone who is sincerely devoted to pursuing the truth and sharing it is at high risk of being viewed as arrogant an…

You're probably right, but saying that stubbornness can be good is my tactic for dealing with people who think I'm stubborn. It moves the conversation from what they think of me personally to whether I'm right or wrong. In regards to what other people accuse you of, it's usually them projecting. In other words, the person who accused you of being an egomaniac could be avoiding fears that they themselves are being an…

I think people called me egomaniacal in part because I am a woman. I strongly suspect I would be considered more humble if I were male. They call me a liar because they find my claims threatening. If I am right, then their doctor is wrong and that has ugly, uncomfortable implications when your life (or your child's life) is on the line.

Re: Why are so many programmers arrogant?

#95

Post by petercooper »

j_baker wrote: post #77
petercooper wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard a line in a comedy the other night: "I never compromise. Because if you compromise, you're admitting you aren't right." On the other hand, being arrogant and stubborn about the truth is a virtue in my opinion. I take it you're not married. And if you are, please write a book about this policy and its effects if you use it frequently ;-) Also, an issue about being stubborn about the truth is that there can be…

Well, I'm about as married as any gay male can be. And my boyfriend has learned to put up with it. "Also, an issue about being stubborn about the truth is that there can be as many versions of the "truth" as there are actors in the situation." I'd strongly disagree. Different people may have different pieces of the truth (ie the truth could be "Either person x's approach or person y's approach will work"), they might…

It's a cop-out depending on your epistemological standpoint. I'm typically an empiricist so I appreciate the sentiment, but I recognize that other viewpoints of what truth and knowledge are could have merit.

I'm not a big reader on philosophy and epistemology but merely the smorgasbord of "theories of truth" presented at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth is enough for me to shy away from asserting that "where the truth exists it is singular." I sympathize with and have held the same position, but I've seen enough to cast doubt upon my gut feelings on the matter.

Re: Why are so many programmers arrogant?

#96

Post by ThomPete »

jacquesm wrote: post #50
ThomPete wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I think it's fair to say that you are not the norm.

Why shouldn't it be the norm though, this reminds me of my favorite Robert Heinlein quote: "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty…

I didn't say it shouldn't be the norm. Just that I don't think it is.

Re: Why are so many programmers arrogant?

#97

Post by JanezStupar »

_delirium wrote: post #53
JanezStupar wrote: post #32

I have been called arrogant after I politely pointed out that people are driving 300mph towards a wall. I have been called arrogant when after they crashed I politely pointed out that I warned them in time that they will crash and burn. I have been called arrogant when I refused to clean up the mess for a 100th time - which could easily be prevented if people took a little bit of caution and tried to understand their…

Man this is even an arrogant way of writing a comment! And with a hero complex thrown in, too.

:)

What I find interesting tho - is how before you commented I kept getting upvoted. But then a steady stream of downwotes hit.

So to steer back from tangent - seems like perception of one's arrogance depends more on popular opinion than one's own merit.

Re: Why are so many programmers arrogant?

#98

Post by Shorel »

jacquesm wrote: post #4

They're not really arrogant, they just come off as such. Programmers usually are pretty clever cookies and as a rule are more often right than wrong, even if the subject is not programming, that alone is enough to mark them as arrogant. We also tend to be an opinionated bunch. Some of them compound the problem by no longer considering other people to be occasionally right and them being wrong and do cross the line in…

Only half of the people is arrogant.

The other half is condescending.

Post reply on HN