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The Medieval Mindset (2017)

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Re: The Medieval Mindset (2017)

#11
or, how to regurgitate the inherent biases used to justify the establishment of of your own philosphy about another one without actually understanding it to be biased...

> Nobody is Equal The world is hierarchical.

Unlike now?

> People of different estates and statuses are widely seen to be "of a different substance." > Peasants, seen by the nobility, are closer to hounds than the noble's peers.

1st world 2nd world, developing countries, etc.

> The person of the monarch was literally sacred - divine matter.

Not actually true. Rule by divine right was not universally accepted, and didn't imply immunity since this was a 'right' or 'title' under a christian society - the monarch was intended (yes I know) to embody the best virtues of the best families, and if this was not the case, he (or more rarely she) was deposed.

Indeed, having such a strong power structure meant abuses were rampant, and people took advantage. but even the philosophical basis of the time did not believe this.

> Also, men and women were made of completely different substances.

Clearly much crazier than the present day, where men and women are made of the exact same substance even though they actually aren't but somehow embody distinct 'gender identities' which are devoid of biology and can be applied equally and arbitrarily in differing configurations.

> The idea of a law that applies equally or fairly to everyone was neither acceptable nor practical.

Pretty sure murder was punished with death, as one example. Whether one could get away with it is another thing.. Certainly our courts now are always fair and never manipulated..

> Justice is a modern conceit.

justice under rule of law is an enlightement concept. justice under law of 'what is right' is more traditional.

I posit that false convictions or incorrect enforcement are both feasible under either model.

> Neither speech nor assembly nor the commonest transactions of life are free.

mass surveillance, etc.

> There are laws for everything, and if there are no laws there are customs, and if there are no customs people will be reactionary and suspicious anyway.

see also voting response to this post, I am sure.

> The medieval world could be shaken by a speech, forever changed by a book, split by theological controversies over a line of text or the intonation of a hymn or the date of a holiday.

And what are the Kardashians up to this week? I hear so-and-so is planning to invade somewhere-or-the-other.. It's 9/11.

> Displays of magnificence were not only convenient, they were mandatory. Misers were spurned and mocked.

Indeed. This is why monasteries utterly failed in that time period, and dressing simply and repairing ones garments, items, etc. is a common practice in modern consumer society.

> The Church glittered. Cathedrals were pieces of heaven brought to rest upon the earth

John Calvin called, he want's his reformation back. But I guess you were away and on holiday in Vegas, so you missed the memo.

> Patrick says "the ruling class are living like Kardashians" and he's exactly right.

welll well, looks like we agree on something.

Re: The Medieval Mindset (2017)

#13
I think it may be biased to think that medieval life was a nightmare. It's kind of a modern propaganda (that started in the Renaissance - a more bloody period with a lot more wars by the way) to dismiss this old world and impose a new one.

Re: The Medieval Mindset (2017)

#14
post #3

On top of all that, you also live in a world full of heavily armed and armoured impulsive brutes that will murder you and your entire family as soon as look at you. They may well have tried to do so pretty recently too. Fortunately many of those people are foreigners or strangers, but they are out there, they want all of your stuff and it's only a matter of time before they come to get it. Or, you can team up with yo…

a world full of heavily armed and armoured impulsive brutes that will murder you and your entire family as soon as look at you...

So, like a 3rd world country or living under a dictatorship.

Re: The Medieval Mindset (2017)

#15
post #11

or, how to regurgitate the inherent biases used to justify the establishment of of your own philosphy about another one without actually understanding it to be biased... > Nobody is Equal The world is hierarchical. Unlike now? > People of different estates and statuses are widely seen to be "of a different substance." > Peasants, seen by the nobility, are closer to hounds than the noble's peers. 1st world 2nd world,…

>> Pretty sure murder was punished with death, as one example.

Depends on social classes of the murderer and the victim.

If peasant killed a noble it was punishable by death. And sometimes they would also torture said peasant before killing him, because the death alone wasn't enough punishment.

If a noble killed peasant they would typically only need to pay a small fine (unless the peasant was not his own subject, in which case instead of fine they would pay retribution to peasant's lord for the "lost income")

Re: The Medieval Mindset (2017)

#16
post #8

I would recommend reading A Distant Mirror, the book referenced at the start.

I would recommend reading Bernard Bachrach's review of A Distant Mirror . "...her generalizations about medieval warfare are grossly inaccurate. Her discussions of individual psychology and group psychology are equally foolish. She seems to have little understanding of what motivated the people about whom she writes and generally resorts to cliches such as chivalry or individual neuroses as explanations."

Tuchman in her heyday was the recipient of an enormous amount of opprobrium from her generation of academic historians (of which the nearly-fossilized Bachrach is a member), mostly for being a non-academic, extremely successful female popular historian. Modern academics are generally much more positive about her work. Just remember that it's an introductory popular history.

Re: The Medieval Mindset (2017)

#17
post #13

I think it may be biased to think that medieval life was a nightmare. It's kind of a modern propaganda (that started in the Renaissance - a more bloody period with a lot more wars by the way) to dismiss this old world and impose a new one.

Indeed. People tend to forget that the Middle Ages lasted for a thousand years. When all the conflicts are put together it seems there were only murderous barbarians out there trying to murder and/or rape you. But most areas were war-free most of that time. The reason that Barbara Tuchman wrote about France in the 14th century is that there happened so much.

Monty Python and The Holy Grail was not a documentary but satirised (among other things) the way the Middle Ages were depicted in movies and books.

One of the reasons we have such a bad image of that period is that the brutalities of the French Revolution needed to be justified.

Re: The Medieval Mindset (2017)

#18
post #17
post #13

I think it may be biased to think that medieval life was a nightmare. It's kind of a modern propaganda (that started in the Renaissance - a more bloody period with a lot more wars by the way) to dismiss this old world and impose a new one.

Indeed. People tend to forget that the Middle Ages lasted for a thousand years. When all the conflicts are put together it seems there were only murderous barbarians out there trying to murder and/or rape you. But most areas were war-free most of that time. The reason that Barbara Tuchman wrote about France in the 14th century is that there happened so much. Monty Python and The Holy Grail was not a documentary but s…

I totally agree. Speaking of the French revolution, have a look at this:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/396...

Re: The Medieval Mindset (2017)

#19
post #8

I would recommend reading A Distant Mirror, the book referenced at the start.

I would recommend reading Bernard Bachrach's review of A Distant Mirror . "...her generalizations about medieval warfare are grossly inaccurate. Her discussions of individual psychology and group psychology are equally foolish. She seems to have little understanding of what motivated the people about whom she writes and generally resorts to cliches such as chivalry or individual neuroses as explanations."

Any idea where to get said review?

(One of the best things about Computer Science is that, generally, every publication after 1990 is online and available for those of us without access to an academic research library.)

Re: The Medieval Mindset (2017)

#20
post #17
post #13

I think it may be biased to think that medieval life was a nightmare. It's kind of a modern propaganda (that started in the Renaissance - a more bloody period with a lot more wars by the way) to dismiss this old world and impose a new one.

Indeed. People tend to forget that the Middle Ages lasted for a thousand years. When all the conflicts are put together it seems there were only murderous barbarians out there trying to murder and/or rape you. But most areas were war-free most of that time. The reason that Barbara Tuchman wrote about France in the 14th century is that there happened so much. Monty Python and The Holy Grail was not a documentary but s…

>But most areas were war-free most of that time.

Can anyone verify that?

I imagine that the last 2,000 years have been filled with territorial disputes that were solved with the blood of males.

The survivors of the battle getting to keep the land and the women.

I dont think these were petty disputes either, I think these were rational decision making from leadership.

But I really dont know. Ive thought about this question, to propagate your genes, is it better to be Royal or peasant stock?

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