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Google Employees Resign in Protest Against Pentagon Contract

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Re: Google Employees Resign in Protest Against Pentagon Contract

#91

Post by dx034 »

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #49
dx034 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it embarrassing to work for an insurance? Most insurances exist for a reason and are vital for most people/businesses. It's often said that insurances can be boring to work for but never heard that the sector has a terrible reputation.

Health insurance doesn't have a terrible reputation in the US?

Most health insurance companies do but not all. And of Non-life insurance companies (property, car) there's generally not such a bad perception. But I'm not based in the US so can't say. At least in Europe, most people are not the biggest fan of insurances but they recognise the need for them.

Re: Google Employees Resign in Protest Against Pentagon Contract

#92

Post by mc32 »

retSava wrote: post #73
sjg007 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well... yes and no.. AI research is funded and has developed out of darpa contracts. If you rule out the abstraction then we’d have no research. But it’s fine if they say they don’t wa t to do this particular work.

The thing is that you can't simply lump all military-related activities into one heap. There's a scale from passively only reacting in self-defense when acted upon, to actively seeking engagement on foreign ground. This thing Google helps with, parsing and scanning through drone visual feeds, typically ends up on the latter end of the scale. Sure, it could be used for parsing feeds from drones monitoring the US borde…

One could argue if a military will keep on using drones, is it “better” for them and us to better discern an enemy more accurately to minimize non enemy casualties, or continue with present incidental collateral death rates?

It’s not as simple as I’m against droning—that’s going to continue so long as the electorate demands minimized losses on our side (a very good argument, one leftists leveraged to try to get the US to disengage from previous wars), droning and it’s capabilities will continue.

Re: Google Employees Resign in Protest Against Pentagon Contract

#93

Post by scruple »

dx034 wrote: post #91
ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Health insurance doesn't have a terrible reputation in the US?

Most health insurance companies do but not all. And of Non-life insurance companies (property, car) there's generally not such a bad perception. But I'm not based in the US so can't say. At least in Europe, most people are not the biggest fan of insurances but they recognise the need for them.

Allstate and State Farm famously skipped insurance payouts for victims of Hurricane Katrina. More recently, victims of the Tubbs Fire in Santa Rosa, CA are locked in a legal battle with their property insurers. I agree with you that you _must_ have it, regardless of personal feelings or perception, but it's very far from perfect and probably very far from most measures of "good," too.

Re: Google Employees Resign in Protest Against Pentagon Contract

#94

Post by goobynight »

murph-almighty wrote: post #61
easytiger wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without insurance, much of all business and life cannot be risk managed and is not viable in any way. Pretty silly POV

I don't disagree with you- insurance does perform an essential function in risk management. However, this doesn't mean that individual actors in this space have always performed in the "best" way. Not to mention the nature of insurance in general is adversarial against the customer- if you pay out on too many policies you're underwater.

I wouldn't say that is overly adversarial.

Insurance fraud is a career for some.

I suppose if I worked in insurance I'd want to work for the gold standard that pays out and does a good job, while aggressively sniffing out fraud.

Re: Google Employees Resign in Protest Against Pentagon Contract

#95

Post by emodendroket »

assblaster wrote: post #88
emodendroket wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are limits to the idea of trying to get inside and change the organization from within. To take the idea to a ridiculous extreme, you wouldn't tell someone that they should join ISIS and change it from within because Islamic terrorism is going to happen with or without them. I'd also question your bedrock assumption, that Google has much higher ethical standards than Raytheon. Why should we think this beyond "d…

Your ridiculous extreme is non-nonsensical as it is a straw man to intimate any equivalency between ISIS and Alphabet's machine learning division. As well, the Department of Defense often has open bidding for contracts for defense technologies. If Alphabet is competing for a contract, you can almost certainly be guaranteed that another corporation is bidding for the same contract. Individual employees have a say in h…

Yes, I'm sure other companies are interested in the work. That does not mean engineers who think the work is morally repellent must lend their talents to it anyway.

Re: Google Employees Resign in Protest Against Pentagon Contract

#96

Post by not_real_acct »

Pigo wrote: post #23

I left a good job with an insurance company, not in protest really, but just because I hated the idea of being a part of an industry I despise so much. Unfortunately my departure didn't shake the foundation of their business, but I'm no longer embarrassed to talk about who I work for.

I like working in finance. I get the impression that they treat their employees well because nobody wants to work for Evilcorp.

Re: Google Employees Resign in Protest Against Pentagon Contract

#97

Post by bb88 »

jahaja wrote: post #13

Very respectable decision in my book. Walking the walk, not just talking the talk. You just can't abstract yourself away from ethical decisions ad infinitum. The level of self-deception needed to convince oneself that this, or whatever US military tech for that matter, would only be used for defensive purposes is mind-boggling to me.

The history of technology and the military in the US is more complex than the myopic "Military is Bad" style of arguments that have been vogue as of late. Preventing the US military from using that technology doesn't stop China or Russia from upgrading their systems to use it.

Re: Google Employees Resign in Protest Against Pentagon Contract

#99

Post by wpdev_63 »

Good on them. Weaponizing mass surveillance will the most evil any company has ever done.

Soon enough we are going to have drone flying done the street and stopping us to scan our face. No one will bat an eye as it's for "our protection" and nothing _more_.

Make no mistake we are competing with China.

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