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Why are so many programmers arrogant?

programmers.stackexchange.com

41–50 of 98 posts

Re: Why are so many programmers arrogant?

#41
post #4

They're not really arrogant, they just come off as such. Programmers usually are pretty clever cookies and as a rule are more often right than wrong, even if the subject is not programming, that alone is enough to mark them as arrogant. We also tend to be an opinionated bunch. Some of them compound the problem by no longer considering other people to be occasionally right and them being wrong and do cross the line in…

A programmer is not a mathematician, physicist, or surgeon - and yet a programmer would put himself on that list.

As a mathematical physicist who recently became a professional programmer, it doesn't seem that inaccurate to me.

Re: Why are so many programmers arrogant?

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To help with that he wrote it again at the bottom of the cartoon.

The point I was trying to make was not about my literacy, but rather that I instantly recognised the character as a programmer, even though he was meant to be a physicist.

Ok, point taken.

But it could have been an engineer just the same, or a person with advanced electronics experience (Hams are renowned for this sort of thing) and a myriad of other professions and activities where problem solving is the norm rather than the exception.

It's the method that matters, not the actual problem at hand.

Re: Why are so many programmers arrogant?

#43
post #35
post #4

They're not really arrogant, they just come off as such. Programmers usually are pretty clever cookies and as a rule are more often right than wrong, even if the subject is not programming, that alone is enough to mark them as arrogant. We also tend to be an opinionated bunch. Some of them compound the problem by no longer considering other people to be occasionally right and them being wrong and do cross the line in…

as a rule are more often right than wrong, even if the subject is not programming I would say this statement is the very height of arrogance. But this is easy to test: simply don't engage the services of any specialists for bit. Do your own plumbing, fix your own car or central heating, represent yourself in court (and tell the judge you know more than him about the law). Then see how you feel in a year.

Smart people are a minority and on average find themselves in a conversation with less smart people. Therefore, smart people tend to be right more often than less smart people, partly because they know more, but also because they are more aware of what they don't know and are less prone to saying wrong things. Instead, they will keep their mouth shut, hedge their words or learn about the subject first.

Jacquesm's statement in no way suggests a smart person should do his own plumbing. In fact, because a person is smart, he will be more likely to hire a professional. Or, if he does try it himself, he will succeed more often, because he gets the appropriate information and training beforehand. These arguments are actually somewhat circular, because this behavior partly defines what we perceive as 'smart people': people that succeed at what they attempt.

Smart people that know they are smart will inevitably come across as arrogant, because when they think they are right, they know chances are high they actually are right and they will not easily let an opinion drop. They know when they don't know stuff and they won't often end up having to admit they were wrong, because they weren't claiming to be right in the first place. The 'other side' doesn't see this: they only see someone that is pretty sure he is right most of the time and that hardly ever admits he was wrong.

What does this have to do with programmers? Programmers are generally perceived to be smart people and as a result programmers tend to consider themselves to be pretty smart. Unfortunately, this also holds for programmers that actually aren't all that smart and should be more modest with regards to their opinion about matters. The aggregate result of all this is that a relatively large group of programmers think too highly of themselves and that confirmation bias has led some to conclude that 'many programmers are arrogant'.

BTW, this is an explanation. I lack any solid data to back it up. It's an explanatory narrative and it may be wrong. However, if enough people think it sounds right, it's probably right. Another reason why people sometimes seem arrogant, is that they may strongly defend some position, while it never becomes clear during the discussion that they are well aware they may be wrong. If you defend a position very well, it just means that I am wrong, if I am claiming you are wrong. However, that doesn't mean that you are right. We can both be wrong, but, more importantly, we are probably both partially right.

Re: Why are so many programmers arrogant?

#45
post #2

Young people with a natural affinity for an in-demand skill often are. A hundred years ago you could have written this about pilots. 500 years about painters (apprentices to the great masters in the Renaissance were notorious for it). As an aside, for every genuine Aspbergers case, there are 10 who simply think they have a god-given right to act like dicks. It's like dyslexics, you can always tell the real ones becau…

It's like dyslexics, you can always tell the real ones because they're quietly getting on with it, not making a huge attention-getting fuss.

I think a good deal of individuals that draw attention to it do so because they are generally embarrassed by some of the manifestations of this particular problem. You can have an otherwise intelligent person, who's writing can give the indication that there thoughts are somehow less valid, because there intelligence should be questioned due to gramatical errors.

I think stating it, is a way of an individual saying "hey don't discount my thoughts due to the vessel they come it"

I know for me personally, it is a source of major embarrassment and this damned iPhone keyboard only makes it dreadfully worse.

Re: Why are so many programmers arrogant?

#46
Most people cannot tell the difference between arrogance and confidence. If you're confident you can't avoid people grumbling about how arrogant you are. And if you are arrogant you can't avoid women sleeping with you because you exude confidence. Although your pastor, guidance counselor and boy scout manuals will suggest the opposite, I've found it's better to err on the side of being slightly arrogant than humble. Just make sure you can back it up.

Re: Why are so many programmers arrogant?

#47
There's a lot of ways programmers can be arrogant:

* Black-and-white feedback. Software is very black and white. Your dietitian can tell you to "reduce your sugar intake" instead of telling you you're fat because you drink so much cola. There's no way to sugar coat "you pressed the wrong button, and now you have to start over", unless you want to point out that the programmer who make the stupid program must have been an idiot. Either way, you look arrogant.

* We read a lot. Hackers usually know about the Milgram experiment, how Easter Island's economy collapsed when they cut down all the trees (peak wood), and why wikipedia may or may not be accurate. People who know it all come across as arrogant.

* We speak another language. No, not C. Programmers often speak a dialect that's a bit like English, but evolved into something a little different over IRC and BBs. That language isn't always rude, but it's different, and different can often come across as rude.

* We need to be intellectually assertive. We will find out why the core got dumped, and fix it. It's our brains against the compiler. If we don't win, our programs won't work.

* Arrogant programmers are still employable. There are plenty of arrogant HR officers, secretaries, school teachers, and shop assistants; but none of them act that way on the job. Sales guys are said to be unbelievably arrogant, but you can bet they will be very polite to potential customers.

* Heck, if we get too passive aggressive when we tell the PHB he's wrong, it can end in disaster. "Getting the team onto a version control system is universally agreed to be an essential best practice. It aids communication, reduces bugs, and keeps the source code safe" just isn't strong enough. He's already heard a similar pitch from a guy selling UML code generators, and look how that turned out. A bit more drama might be needed: "We aren't using a VCS. ANYBODY knows that this is as stupid as [your analogy] to control STDs."

Re: Why are so many programmers arrogant?

#48
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as a rule are more often right than wrong, even if the subject is not programming I would say this statement is the very height of arrogance. But this is easy to test: simply don't engage the services of any specialists for bit. Do your own plumbing, fix your own car or central heating, represent yourself in court (and tell the judge you know more than him about the law). Then see how you feel in a year.

> Do your own plumbing, fix your own car or central heating, represent yourself in court (and tell the judge you know more than him about the law). Then see how you feel in a year. I just rebuilt a house (which obviously includes a great deal of plumbing, including a central heating system) and have swapped out the gearbox in a front-wheel drive japanese car. If you want I can post the pictures as proof. I am not lik…

But I think it's fair to say that you are not the norm.

Re: Why are so many programmers arrogant?

#49
post #4

They're not really arrogant, they just come off as such. Programmers usually are pretty clever cookies and as a rule are more often right than wrong, even if the subject is not programming, that alone is enough to mark them as arrogant. We also tend to be an opinionated bunch. Some of them compound the problem by no longer considering other people to be occasionally right and them being wrong and do cross the line in…

A programmer is not a mathematician, physicist, or surgeon - and yet a programmer would put himself on that list.

As a professional engineer who took a programming career (I did some engineering between programming jobs), I have to second yummyfajitas' comment.

Being a good programmer seems every bit as demanding as being a good mathematician, physicist or surgeon.

Or engineer, although I won't consider myself a good one. A "good enough" at best.

Re: Why are so many programmers arrogant?

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do your own plumbing, fix your own car or central heating, represent yourself in court (and tell the judge you know more than him about the law). Then see how you feel in a year. I just rebuilt a house (which obviously includes a great deal of plumbing, including a central heating system) and have swapped out the gearbox in a front-wheel drive japanese car. If you want I can post the pictures as proof. I am not lik…

But I think it's fair to say that you are not the norm.

Why shouldn't it be the norm though, this reminds me of my favorite Robert Heinlein quote: "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly".

Real world skills are important, even for mathematicians, physicists and computer programmers.

And having some real world skills only gives you more respect, not less for the people that practice those things every day.

Nothing will teach you respect for a farmer more than trying to grow your own food, and the same goes for any other variation on that theme.

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