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Don't let Google take over Berlin

fuckoffgoogle.de

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Re: Don't let Google take over Berlin

#81

Post by beaner »

praptak wrote: post #61
m90 wrote: post #27

Just like people repeatedly breaking the windows of a coffee shop nearby because the owners are "bankers from London" (this was stated as the #1 selling point for boycot in a flyer) this entire movement exposes the worst Kreuzberg has to offer: an incredibly self-righteous xenophobia. People think they are so incredibly open minded when they are pro refugees, but as soon as it's the "wrong kind of Ausländer" (the one…

Lumping together people and corporations is questionable.

The page itself does this by calling out "tech bros".

Re: Don't let Google take over Berlin

#82

Post by jancsika »

m90 wrote: post #27

Just like people repeatedly breaking the windows of a coffee shop nearby because the owners are "bankers from London" (this was stated as the #1 selling point for boycot in a flyer) this entire movement exposes the worst Kreuzberg has to offer: an incredibly self-righteous xenophobia. People think they are so incredibly open minded when they are pro refugees, but as soon as it's the "wrong kind of Ausländer" (the one…

> People will need to realize that they will need to be welcoming to either everyone or noone, everything else is just bigotry.

AFAICT, Germany hasn't accused the NSA of doing anything illegal after the Snowden revelations. Should Germany be welcoming to the NSA in your opinion, lest Germany be accused of bigotry?

If the answer is that it is a separate issue because the NSA is a government agency of a nation-state and not a citizen, then I think good faith requires that you grant FUGoogle an edge case to your argument as well. After all, the argument they are putting forward is that Google is a powerful organization that surveils, censors, and avoids paying taxes. (Also, they make the argument that Google can't legally say no to participating in U.S. wide-net surveillance programs.)

Argue the substance, of which there is much, but please don't branch off into, "They came for Google and I said nothing." It's low effort.

Re: Don't let Google take over Berlin

#83

Post by accnumnplus1 »

m90 wrote: post #27

Just like people repeatedly breaking the windows of a coffee shop nearby because the owners are "bankers from London" (this was stated as the #1 selling point for boycot in a flyer) this entire movement exposes the worst Kreuzberg has to offer: an incredibly self-righteous xenophobia. People think they are so incredibly open minded when they are pro refugees, but as soon as it's the "wrong kind of Ausländer" (the one…

Sounds like London - people are open-minded as long as you tick the boxes to meet the requirements for being open-minded about. They fancy themselves open-minded but are really just mindlessly following another fad.

Re: Don't let Google take over Berlin

#84

Post by blackbagboys »

partiallypro wrote: post #18
ArmandGrillet wrote: post #7

The rents in Kreuzberg already increased a lot this past decade: https://guthmann-estate.com/marketreport/micro-market-report... Gentrification is a problem, but long time renters in Germany are really having it good. An example of how does the system works here: I pay twice as much as some German friends living in my district because my parents didn't sign me up in a union 20 years ago. I'm OK with that, it's the ga…

I don't understand this new mentality that "Gentrification is a problem," companies and wealthier people moving in makes everyone in the area more wealthy. The problem of affordable housing has less to do with those companies moving in and more to do with local real estate monopolies that lobby against rezoning for residential and expanding building permits. That's basically the bay area in a nutshell. People complai…

companies and wealthier people moving in makes everyone in the area more wealthy.

This would only be true if everyone owned their own residences and profited from the increase in land values. In reality, the inhabitants of gentrifying neighborhoods are usually just evicted from their homes so the owners can sell to developers, and they end up worse off than they were before.

Re: Don't let Google take over Berlin

#85

Post by steenreem »

pas wrote: post #64
steenreem wrote: post #53

I think the author is correct in thinking that Google will cause him discomfort by creating this campus. Everyone in this area not employed by Google will have to move because Google is basically buying the land, directly or through its employees. Some of Google's money will flow to locals not directly employed by Google, but will this offset the increased cost of their living expenses?

> Everyone in this area Everyone in this area should have bought the flats they live in, or should have signed long term leases with inflation-pegged rent adjustments. Other than that it's simply people trying to tell someone to not eat their cake, because they want it.

Well, I think I can make a simpler argument. Google will change this neighbourhood. The culture will change, the cost of things, not just rent, will increase. Assuming that the author is very happy with how his neighbourhood currently is, I can see how he doesn't want Google's change.

I think that, if the majority of the people in the area side with the author, there is an argument to be made to, through political means, block bringers of gentrifications such as Google from entering this area.

Re: Don't let Google take over Berlin

#86

Post by dmix »

Panoramix wrote: post #57
2trill2spill wrote: post #19

Pretty immature website, I get why people are against Google and specifically this campus but this website rubs me the wrong way. If they made the same arguments, cleaned up the language and delivery and cited it with studies, papers and facts it would be a much more credible site. They should probably change the domain name as well.

The lack of numbers and clear facts in there are very telling. I'm always wary when significant claims are made but no numbers or studies are cited to support them. In this case it's just about feelings; believing something like a sort of religion. I'm not saying all of their claims are outright wrong, but this borderline childish website did not persuade me of anything - if anything I have some antipathy against thi…

> borderline childish website

It's fully childish, it's called "Fuck off Google" and the call to action button is "WTF?", and it's promoting tagging graffiti on stores/public places with ugly slogans and calling it "street art": https://fuckoffgoogle.de/2018/04/17/street-art-against-googl...

Re: Don't let Google take over Berlin

#87

Post by tomxor »

pas wrote: post #64
steenreem wrote: post #53

I think the author is correct in thinking that Google will cause him discomfort by creating this campus. Everyone in this area not employed by Google will have to move because Google is basically buying the land, directly or through its employees. Some of Google's money will flow to locals not directly employed by Google, but will this offset the increased cost of their living expenses?

> Everyone in this area Everyone in this area should have bought the flats they live in, or should have signed long term leases with inflation-pegged rent adjustments. Other than that it's simply people trying to tell someone to not eat their cake, because they want it.

> Everyone in this area should have bought the flats they live in.

Don't you think they would have if they could?

Re: Don't let Google take over Berlin

#88

Post by amoshi »

zamalek wrote: post #70

There is some blatantly false information on this page. > Google was caught red-handed participating in NSA’s illegall surveillance of almost everyone PRISM was infiltration. The wiki also calls out Apple in this event, who are known to proactively limit surveillance. Many of the arguments also suffer from severely flawed logic, especially where the actions of others are held against Google. There is some truth here,…

>PRISM was infiltration.

According to the leaked documents, the companies were "partners". Of course the companies denied it, what else did you expect?

>Government officials and the document itself made clear that the NSA regarded the identities of its private partners as PRISM’s most sensitive secret, fearing that the companies would withdraw from the program if exposed. “98 percent of PRISM production is based on Yahoo, Google and Microsoft; we need to make sure we don’t harm these sources,” the briefing’s author wrote in his speaker’s notes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/us-intelligenc...

Re: Don't let Google take over Berlin

#89

Post by muehlbau »

I'm from Munich where Google opened their first engineering office in Germany and continuously expanded their presence ever since. I don't see that Munich and the area were transformed by this as described here. However, Munich is a very different city than Berlin. I can see why it might be tempting for a big tech company to open an office or campus in Kreuzberg, because it represents a certain style, but personally, I don't think the area is ready for this yet.

Re: Don't let Google take over Berlin

#90

Post by akx »

bitL wrote: post #63
partiallypro wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this new mentality that "Gentrification is a problem," companies and wealthier people moving in makes everyone in the area more wealthy. The problem of affordable housing has less to do with those companies moving in and more to do with local real estate monopolies that lobby against rezoning for residential and expanding building permits. That's basically the bay area in a nutshell. People complai…

Because Germany used to be different; if you had a long-term contract from 90s that e.g. stated your rent was 300 EUR/month, there was very limited room for any increases (basically only when your house went through some kind of renovation or the energy etc. costs rose significantly). So somebody who lives long-term in that neighborhood pays e.g. 400 EUR/month, whereas new tenants pay 1500EUR/month for the same. It's…

Most Finnish rent contracts have a clause that allows the renter to adjust (i.e. increase) the rent yearly by a given percentage (usually according to a cost of living index).
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