Live data from Hacker News

'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

theguardian.com

171–180 of 184 posts

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#171
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree completely that "cheap Berlin" is rapidly disappearing. Just this morning I was checking real-estate prices[0] for the first time in a few years and was a bit shocked. Folks in Silicon Valley or Munich or Hamburg would probably still find it cheap-ish but AFAIK local salaries have not remotely kept up with this trend. A million Euros for a nice family-sized flat in a good neighborhood is not exotic anymore, b…

How do you think the views on labor differ between SV vs Berlin ?

In SV there is (it seems to me) an attitude that tech entrepreneurship is a win-win for capital and labor, meaning (among other things) talent is paid well. In Berlin I'm sure there are some companies that see it that way, but many are in Berlin because of the cheap labor and they have every intention of leveraging that.

Once you get above a certain level, especially working for bigger companies, it levels out, and you won't be compensated in cash as much as in SV but you'll get all the other things that come with a reasonably well-run social democracy.

But in SV, say, nobody who's any good would work for the Brothers Samwer. In Berlin lots and lots of people need the job.

I could be wrong about this of course, I'm an old fart with a stable gig and all my data are anecdata.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#172
As a Berliner, I find it hard to understand the resistance. On the one hand everybody cries out here about the rising rent and the stagnating wages and on the other hand there is this opposition against bigger companies (e. g. Google or big media companies at the Spree). Gentrification will happen anyway because of investors buying off apartments, houses or complete blocks. Berlin has one of the highest tax on purchasing housing space in Germany which is really bad for people buying apartments but doesn't matter for investors that buy as a business since they can get them partially back with their tax returns (not possible if you use the space yourself instead of renting it out).

Big companies would give the market some incentive to raise the wages, which I know is at first bad for small startups but also attracts so much talent that it will balance out at some point (I hope).

I guess this is part of the Berlin culture, being innovative and free minded but also being completely against any change. Only 10 waking minutes away from the future Google campus there is this big fight about reworking the riverside of the Landwehrkanal which should make it accessible for Wheelchairs and baby strollers as well as bikes but people are protesting, living in one of the best appartments with still cheap rent because of their old contracts. Before that there was this even bigger fight about a small part of the old Tempelhof airport area. The city planned to build houses and office space there. I can't imagine any other city (with a housing crisis) where people would oppose to this. The fear was that a nature reservation area would suffer which according to plan would have been not be the case.

Probably it's a matter of view points, there are the new economy workers like myself waiting for companies to settle in Berlin (not so many there because of the cities history) and then there is the other side with people in really low paying jobs that fear exclusion, totally valid. I don't have numbers but I could imagine that Berlin as quite a bit discrepancy between low and high income households with quite many on the lower end because it has so few big industries.

Cheap Berlin only exists in some parts and mainly myths. Friends of mine pay the same rent in Munich for comparable apartments while going out can be cheaper in Berlin but only if you know where to go, the beer price is mostly the same, food depends. The wages are much lower in Berlin, for developers it's at junior entry at around 10.000€ per year less.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Silicon Valley became what it is today because there was cheap industrial land for chip fabs and random startups.

What? You're overlooking an enormous number of factors. If it's cheap industrial land alone that made Silicon Valley how did Texas, Nevada, The Midwest and other places miss out on a tech business boom?

Texas has TI which is a big tech firm.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#174
As a Berliner I find this hideous. There are so many high end work spaces in Berlin which push the rents anyway. This is mostly invisible to the angry mob but with Google they have a fall guy. This is completely distracting from the underlying structural problems.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#175
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No way. Europe's Silicon Valley will establish in Eastern Europe, where living is cheaper and governments are more willing to ease up on regulations to accomodate the flexible start-up employer-employee relationships. Warsaw, Sophia, Tallinn, those are the spots to keep an eye out for.

The closest to Silicon Valley is London, however salaries there are pitiful. By the time Europe has any attempt to actually create an extremely well-paid bleeding-edge tech hub, that tech will be already in consolidation phase... Dream on.

For a fairly experienced developer in London you're looking at £60,000-£100,000 salary, which is $80,000-$135,000. Maybe not quite Silicon Valley but a far cry from pitiful. London is expensive to live, but nowhere near SV as far as I know.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#176
post #165
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Travel there to see yourself. Try to bring a foreign looking girl friend. Enjoy. The condescending tone is uncalled for. As for the advice, I don't really need to travel as I've lived in Poland for my whole life (minus a few years spent abroad / in the UK). I've also been to several countries in the region, and yes I have indeed brought quite a few "foreign looking" friends with me, including an Italian girlfriend.…

" including an Italian girlfriend." Try to bring an Indian one. Or Chinese. "I'm sorry if something unpleasant happened to you" It is less about me. I have been there three times and I can take a lot. On my last trip, I spare you my experiences, I stayed one day in the hotel to work on my computer and my GF came back crying and told me she wants to leave and never come back. On the Train to Budapest I met an American…

> I stayed one day in the hotel to work on my computer and my GF came back crying

You should have said that from the start. This definitely rules out Prague as the next Silicon Valley.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#177
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I ask which part of Germany you live in and specifically what your opinion about TUM, KIT and RWTH Aachen is then? I think it is logically not profound to speak for whole Germany.

I think it matters more where I studied. First Heidelberg, then FU Berlin - actually Physics with secondary subject CS. TUM, KIT and RWTH are maybe the best at CS in Germany, but IMO still not good. What are they known for except being good universities for CS?

The fact that you are asking this question makes me believe that you are speaking without having tried to search for an answer on your own. As a CS graduate with secondary subject Mathematics from TUM, I can only speak on behalf of it. You might find https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=194&v=iu6UboRqan... interesting.

How do you know that TUM is not good enough? Probably you are referring to its popularity abroad? Well its definitely worse than that of Stanford, Harvard, MIT, Caltech, etc. But heck, we don't have Hollywood to constantly make plugs in blockbuster movies to boost worldwide opinion.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#179
post #178

https://fuckoffgoogle.de/ There is now a website even.

"“Google campus” in Kreuzberg will inevitably cause rents to increase more, pushing out long-time residents and businesses."

Maybe somebody could tell these retarded leftists that if instead of spray painting walls and breaking windows, they started studying science & math they could get a job and be able to pay for those rents.

"San Francisco – where google operates 10 bus lines to bring its employees to work – became the most expensive city in the world, with rents tripling(? source) over a few years."

Google is definitely not alone responsible for SF prices skyrocketing. Also Google has offices all around the world. Even in relatively affordable places.

Re: 'Google go home': the Berlin neighbourhood fighting off a tech giant

#180
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of Estonia, I was at their embassy in Stockholm last fall and they were pushing hard for Tallinn as the next European capital of tech. Nearly every conversation you had with them, regardless of topic, would somehow gravitate toward how great Estonia is to set up a tech shop. Whether because of cheap real estate or the quality of their work force, or the prevalence of craft beer – it was all just a great plac…

I have vague plans to visit too. And keep in mind Estonia already has produced a success story in tech: Skype.

[deleted]
Post reply on HN