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Is K8s Too Complicated? 

jmoiron.net

151–160 of 171 posts

Re: Is K8s Too Complicated? 

#151

Having worked with Docker Swarm previously - Kubernetes seems like they added 5 layers of abstractions and at the same time made it feel more low-level. I think Kubernetes has all the building blocks to be great but desperately needs a simplified flow/model and UI for developers who just want to run their apps.

I prefer to work with Swarm as well, but I bump into stability issues now and then. It’s probably not on par with Kubernetes

Re: Is K8s Too Complicated? 

#152

Suppose I'm an application developer who is only interested in infrastructure because there needs to be some to run my stuff. In this scenario, would I actually learn Kubernetes, or would it make more sense to go to straight to a PaaS solution? Like OpenShift (which uses k8s in the backend, I believe), or Cloud Foundry, Stackato etc. I always get the impression that k8s has a lot of good ideas, but doesn't provide ev…

My advice is to go directly to a PaaS. I work for Pivotal R&D in and around Cloud Foundry, so that's my personal horse. But I'd rather that you used any PaaS -- Cloud Foundry, OpenShift, Rancher -- than roll your own. Building a platform is hard . It's really really hard. Kubernetes commoditises some of the hard bits. The community around it will progressively commoditise other aspects in time. But PaaSes already exi…

Building PaaS abstractions on top of Kubernetes is an order of magnitude easier than doing what you guys did with Cloud Foundry. Building something that can scale to 250k Containers is monumentally hard, but with K8s, it is taken care of for you: https://kubernetes.io/docs/admin/cluster-large/

If you are a large enough organization, it is quite feasible to setup Kubernetes, chose an ingress solution and then build templated configurations that generate K8s yaml flies and run your deployments with Jenkins. I am not saying it is easy, but you don’t need any expertise with bin packing algorithms and control loops, and really is in the sweet spot of “devops” engineers.

Re: Is K8s Too Complicated? 

#153
post #114
post #5

Right tool for the right job. Is K8s too complicated? For some use cases it is. They probably should do a better job of discouraging certain use cases, but calling their elevator pitch “bullshit” is hyperbolic. There are exceptions to every rule, but a good rule of thumb is cluster size. If you’re managing less than 25 servers than K8s is probably over kill. As you start to creep north of 40 servers K8s really starts…

What good alternative can you suggest for less than 25 servers?

Mesosphere

Re: Is K8s Too Complicated? 

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

K8s is not the only game in town. The question is not k8s vs. old-school ssh and apt-get, but rather k8s vs. Hashicorp Nomad or AWS Fargate. For a few microservices, Nomad is really nice and simple.

Or mesos/marathon, though I'm in no way qualified to make comparisons vs k8s.

Or mesos/marathon, though I'm in no way qualified to make comparisons vs k8s.

I am qualified to make that comparison, and Mesosphere all the way. Rapid, no bullshit deploy, not having to deal with key stack components being alpha, simple management, wide support (including running k8s on mesos if you are so inclined). There is a very long list of why mesosphere can be considered to be a stable and mature product.

Every time I work with k8s I think "this is cool and all, but absolutely not ready for production use" - and in my book production use means not needing a small army of sysadmins (sorry, SME's) to keep it running, not changing core components every change of the moonphase, the majority of core components being stable and battle-tested, and a learning curve that doesn't look like a altitude-vs-time plot of the latest SpaceX launch.

Re: Is K8s Too Complicated? 

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may want to update your tutorial to use cert-manager because kube-lego is in maintenance-only mode

You mean, it's stable. That sounds like a good reason to use it, not to avoid it.

Depends on where you come from. In JS world, stable means there's a fork in it, and it's grayer than last weeks' meat. In server-side world, that means you're good to build a business on it for 15 years

Re: Is K8s Too Complicated? 

#157
post #5

Right tool for the right job. Is K8s too complicated? For some use cases it is. They probably should do a better job of discouraging certain use cases, but calling their elevator pitch “bullshit” is hyperbolic. There are exceptions to every rule, but a good rule of thumb is cluster size. If you’re managing less than 25 servers than K8s is probably over kill. As you start to creep north of 40 servers K8s really starts…

Even though I fully agree with you, running a little 3 node cluster just for fun is amazing. Thanks to Rook and an Nginx ingress controller with kube-lego, I’m able to deploy applications leveraging distributed storage and getting tls secured endpoints without a single ssh session. This, in my point of view, is absolutely powerful. Shameless plug, I‘ve been working on a project explaining how to run small scale clust…

Thanks for sharing about hobby-kube.

Re: Is K8s Too Complicated? 

#158
post #41
post #11

If you follow that link on Twitter, there are a lot of reasonable answers to his (rhetorical?) question - "In a single tweet — can you name a technical benefit you and your team have gained by switching to Kubernetes?" "Sensible configuration, fast deployments, awesome community, and flexible control plane...among others" "single root of truth for configuration" "predictable deploys" "Standardized orchestration, whic…

The linked tweet wasn't this blog post's author, and the tweet author uses she/her pronouns. Gentle reminder that people of all genders are present in tech, and we should be mindful of potential exclusivity when assuming everyone is a man :)

lol

Re: Is K8s Too Complicated? 

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hosted k8s. all the benefits with almost no extra maintenance.

Okay, how about for a tiny budget?

Hosted k8s on google can be as little as $50/month. If your project has really little load, I think serverless with docker containers is the way to go, which might be under $1/month.

However that's not supported yet by Google or AWS, so you have to find another provider.

Re: Is K8s Too Complicated? 

#160
post #5

Right tool for the right job. Is K8s too complicated? For some use cases it is. They probably should do a better job of discouraging certain use cases, but calling their elevator pitch “bullshit” is hyperbolic. There are exceptions to every rule, but a good rule of thumb is cluster size. If you’re managing less than 25 servers than K8s is probably over kill. As you start to creep north of 40 servers K8s really starts…

> Final point: If you’re struggling with K8s swallow your pride and buy a managed solution, then learn as you go.

Can you make vendor recommendations, please?

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