Earlier quoted context omitted.
...all the other options (solar, wind, fracking, hydroelectric, geothermal) have very similar environmental impacts to coal energy. You're going to have to back up that claim with some very strong evidence.
Follow the process chains for manufacturing all of these technologies from their constituent ores, transporting them to a suitable location, and constructing the end product of a power plant connected to a durable energy infrastructure. It cannot be done without ore tailings, a preexisting grid (which will decay and will need periodic regeneration), though maybe it can be done without fossil fuels. I still think the…
Why the Luddites Matter
61–70 of 131 posts
Re: Why the Luddites Matter
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
because "rationally" i should kill you and take your money and food but "empathetically" i don't want the same thing to happen to me, so i tolerate your existence in hopes that you tolerate mine
There isn't a moment in recorded history where one human acting alone has outperformed a group of humans working in tandem. It just doesn't happen. You sometimes get scenarios where one human has disproportionate social control over a group, but even then experiments with democracy have shown it overwhelmingly outperforms the competition. So far on both an absolute and a per capita basis. Many (most?) of our morals a…
"rationally", i shouldn't care about global warming because it's inconvenient to alter my lifestyle and because global warming will not affect me as much in my lifetime
but "empathetically" i care about the future environment i'm leaving for future humans
Re: Why the Luddites Matter
#63The author perceives an unjust smear against historical Luddites, and protests the way that this cuts off critical thinking about the issue of technology in our lives. They highlight that historical Luddites had noble and relatable motives, like wanting better wages to feed their families. They entreat us to think with nuance on the issue. A good and fair point. But then, just paragraphs later, the same author casual…
Re: Why the Luddites Matter
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why are those superior attributes to rationality?
because "rationally" i should kill you and take your money and food but "empathetically" i don't want the same thing to happen to me, so i tolerate your existence in hopes that you tolerate mine
For anyone taking your proposed rational course, however, me and my more rationally self-interested cohorts will eventually get wind of that game (assuming they act "rationally" according to your proposition), we'll band together to defeat them: after all it's in our interest to do so. Not that we're somehow altruists, but that we're self-interested for the long term, over the course of our lives rather than the next meal.
But even so, we don't need the threat of being pummeled by opponents to recognize the course of action you propose as "rational" is mere fools gold; we can see the benefits of the products of others as being far more enhancing than any one meal or some temporary bit of wealth. I gain tremendous benefit from the productivity of other people. Some of those people are artists, some are sanitation workers, some are engineers, and almost all I will have never known individually or even of their existence beyond the output of their minds and labor. It is in -my interest- that -they- thrive in a reasonable way, too. It's in my rational self-interest that they know they will reap the rewards of their efforts, rather than for me to simply steal it and undermine that trust.
All of this I can derive from the rational pursuit of my own self-interest.
Re: Why the Luddites Matter
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
There isn't a moment in recorded history where one human acting alone has outperformed a group of humans working in tandem. It just doesn't happen. You sometimes get scenarios where one human has disproportionate social control over a group, but even then experiments with democracy have shown it overwhelmingly outperforms the competition. So far on both an absolute and a per capita basis. Many (most?) of our morals a…
ok, i have a better one: "rationally", i shouldn't care about global warming because it's inconvenient to alter my lifestyle and because global warming will not affect me as much in my lifetime but "empathetically" i care about the future environment i'm leaving for future humans
Rationally I should have multiple children, as my only legacy is my name.
Still rational, differing worldview.
Part of the worldview your thoughts on rationallity betray is that only the 'here and now' matter. Which only fits a very small philosophy even within the subset of humanity that have no belief in anything supernatural.
A worldview guides not just our view on our relationship to others, and ourselves, and not just moral conduct, but the end goals being targeted. Our rationallity cannot be divorced from our motivations.
Some worldviews are just 'to live another day', others are more nuanced, measuring impact against criteria.
For example, frugality is a worldview, where you don't have any rational compulsion to kill, steal and hoarde, as you don't need it anyway.
Re: Why the Luddites Matter
#66> you do not have to let a tech company screaming “technological progress” in your face turn you into a paragon of passivity This was the article's highlight for me. As a senior programmer I found myself saying "no" to more and more tech nowadays -- smart speakers are and will always be not welcome in my house, I carefully study mobile app permissions and deny everything but the absolutely necessary minimum (on my mo…
Re: Why the Luddites Matter
#67If there are no alternative sources of income(welfare, UBI) that correct this, expect many more "Neo-Luddites" to emerge; specifically in areas targeted for automation.
Its not that these people would be "against progress", they would be against more concrete things(such as the article describes) like automated trucks/delivery and start attacking/robbing/sabotaging the machines to discourage their use instead of people. Just like some abuse automated cashiers(cash registers) to steal products and earlier trends of vending machine abuse: it doesn't register to people they are criminals because the target of crime isn't human, therefore justifying their impulse and intention. That means NeoLuddites don't lose their own 'moral high ground' and will be able to easily spread their ideologies as automation carries bigger and bigger chunk of the economy.
Re: Why the Luddites Matter
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
The captialists had a very rational (if self-interested) reason to dislike the luddites. They just viewed straw men as an effective tactic.
>> rational when it's about people, "rational" is the last thing we need. Empathy, sympathy, compassion is what you need.
I wish I was kidding.
Re: Why the Luddites Matter
#69> you do not have to let a tech company screaming “technological progress” in your face turn you into a paragon of passivity This was the article's highlight for me. As a senior programmer I found myself saying "no" to more and more tech nowadays -- smart speakers are and will always be not welcome in my house, I carefully study mobile app permissions and deny everything but the absolutely necessary minimum (on my mo…
Re: Why the Luddites Matter
#70> you do not have to let a tech company screaming “technological progress” in your face turn you into a paragon of passivity This was the article's highlight for me. As a senior programmer I found myself saying "no" to more and more tech nowadays -- smart speakers are and will always be not welcome in my house, I carefully study mobile app permissions and deny everything but the absolutely necessary minimum (on my mo…
Ditto. My so-called "smart" TV gets HDMI inputs and that's it. An external device connects to the Internet for Netflix etc and if that device ever displeases me or becomes truly obsolete, it can be swapped out for another. But it is extremely difficult to buy a non-smart-TV above a certain size these days. All I wanted was a high quality screen and some inputs - I don't believe in regular upgrades, too much e-waste, I want something that will last as long as a Trinitron did.