Mozilla Fights for Net Neutrality This May (and Always) • Hacker News Board

Re: Mozilla Fights for Net Neutrality This May (and Always)

#121

Post by Sylos » Sat, May 12, 2018, 1:52 PM UTC

dingo_bat wrote: post #102

boomboomsubban wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In no way can Mozilla's actions be taken as a proxy for Google. Yes, most of their revenue comes from Google now, but this is a recent change and there's no reason to think that contract gave Google any control. Next, Google has already voiced their support for net neutrality. They even have a real "proxy," the Internet Association, pledging to support lawsuits like the Mozilla one. https://www.google.com/takeaction/…

> but this is a recent change and there's no reason to think that contract gave Google any control. You're not thinking hard enough then I guess. Mozilla gets 97% of its funding from Google. That's implicit control right there. Google can fail to renew the contract and Mozilla goes poof!

If Google doesn't want that place anymore, there are competitors who would pay similar amounts. Obviously a little less, Google was the highest bidder, otherwise they wouldn't have that space, but not so much less that Mozilla would go poof.

Re: Mozilla Fights for Net Neutrality This May (and Always)

#122

Post by Sylos » Sat, May 12, 2018, 1:54 PM UTC

ghba66 wrote: post #76

Mononokay wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reminds me of the Tor project calling themselves a "human rights project" It fundamentally is a human rights project.

It was a technical project with the goal of proxifying your stuff via the onion network. They made it about human rights. Accessing forbidden websites is just one of all the things you could ever use Tor for. You could also use it to buy drugs or hire a hitman or troll online or watch child pornography. Why not call it a "hitmen for everybody" project?

...because that's not their goal. It's a side effect that they think is worth living with.

Re: Mozilla Fights for Net Neutrality This May (and Always)

#123

Post by kome » Sat, May 12, 2018, 2:00 PM UTC

ttoinou wrote: post #94

Fnoord wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I find amazing is that there are still people on this planet who oppose anything a government does, so they end up at the perils of corporations. I guess, according to you, GDPR is also a Bad Thing (tm)? Hint: it is a response to an industry which failed to regulate itself. When corporations cannot manage themselves, the government must interact by rule of law. An example of that is the sale of frequencies such…

it is a response to an industry which failed to regulate itself Pretty much everything websites do with your data are from voluntary exchange. We decide to subscribe to a website a visit it regularly and give to it your data. We decide to surf some website without ad blockers / web trackers extensions, and we don't want to pay for social medias and some of us actually like well targeted ads. I fail to see what the co…

> Pretty much everything websites do with your data are from voluntary exchange.

Are you joking or are you in denial that much? We have no control most of the time, especially "normal" users. Ad blockers or JavaScript blockers may help, but they are not normal.

Re: Mozilla Fights for Net Neutrality This May (and Always)

#124

Post by ghba66 » Sat, May 12, 2018, 2:03 PM UTC

Jonnax wrote: post #115

ghba66 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A company is free to align themselves with any goal they wish to have. They see that their strategy aligns with the majority of their users and the user's they wish to attract. You have the freedom to not use their product if you don't align with them. They are just virtue signalling. >If you're not from the US what country are you from that would have a benefit from eliminating net neutrality? What are your reasons…

>They are just virtue signalling. They've filed court cases against the FCC. They're activly trying to change legislation. If that's virtue signalling then it's a stupid phrase that means nothing. >I am from a country in the EU. I don't support NN because I want to have access to zero-rated services. As a consumer, they make my life easier and my bill lower. I want to have the freedom of choosing whether I want NN in…

>They've filed court cases against the FCC. They're activly trying to change legislation.

Of course... they have to spend the donations on something. Anything but improving Firefox or Thunderbird, lol

>An ISP zero rating facebook, Netflix or Spotify just entrenches a big player in their dominant position.

No because in the EU by legislation ISPs are forced to zero-rate all services in the same category. If they zero-rate Netflix they have to zero-rate YouTube and everything in between.

>LOL. So a company can't stand for anything because they might upset someone?

Exactly. They should not alienate possible users or customers.

>Have a bit of self awareness. Having a persecution complex when you're on the winning side is pathetic.

I, and all customers, are on the winning side by now. But we have to keep fighting so evil doesn't win, :)

Re: Mozilla Fights for Net Neutrality This May (and Always)

#125

Post by boomboomsubban » Sat, May 12, 2018, 2:18 PM UTC

dingo_bat wrote: post #108

yoklov wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla doesn’t get 97% of it’s funding from google, and until very recently it didn’t get very much at all from them — it’s primary revenue source was yahoo.

> Mozilla doesn’t get 97% of it’s funding from google They do. Look up Mozilla's latest annual report. Edit: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/foundation/annualreport/2016/ Royalties of $503k out of total revenue $520k. Almost 100% of the Royalties are from thier search engine agreement with Google.

>Royalties of $503k out of total revenue $520k. Almost 100% of the Royalties are from thier search engine agreement with Google.

That report is from 2016, when Yahoo had the search engine deal with Mozilla in the US and paid most of the royalties. Now Google presumably pays the most, I doubt that immediately turned Mozilla into their stooge.

Plus, Google is already publicly favoring net neutrality. Some backroom conspiracy to hide things doesn't seem to benefit them.

Re: Mozilla Fights for Net Neutrality This May (and Always)

#126

Post by jchw » Sat, May 12, 2018, 2:42 PM UTC

tokyodude wrote: post #109

this is tangentially related but what are mozilla's plans for autoplay in Firefox? Chrome just effectively broke net neutrality in Chrome by whitelisting a bunch of websites. They claim chrome will learn your preferences and auto-magically whitelist others sites you run videos on but that hardly seems fair. Why did the other sites not have to pass that hurdle? Worse, it only works if you're logged in where as whiteli…

Net neutrality is about the plumbing, not the sink.

Re: Mozilla Fights for Net Neutrality This May (and Always)

#127

Post by boomboomsubban » Sat, May 12, 2018, 2:48 PM UTC

ttoinou wrote: post #65

boomboomsubban wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost like Mozilla tried the whole "no regulation" thing, only to find themselves crushed under the boot of an ultra rich competitor.

Then they need to find a better business model

What business model would you suggest against Microsoft funding their product without expectation of making a profit?

Re: Mozilla Fights for Net Neutrality This May (and Always)

#128

Post by tzahola » Sat, May 12, 2018, 2:50 PM UTC

bhhaskin wrote: post #33

erikpukinskis wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hackers don’t need anything, that’s the point. Hackers find a way.

Hackers might find away, but regular users do not.

Good. Regular users ruined the Internet.

Re: Mozilla Fights for Net Neutrality This May (and Always)

#129

Post by bo1024 » Sat, May 12, 2018, 3:21 PM UTC

acheron wrote: post #6

I still find it amazing that everything has degraded from the independent hacker culture of the 90s to continually begging for the government to control and regulate the Internet. If you ever posted “what the Internet could really use is for the US Congress to control it!” to Usenet or 1999 Slashdot you would have gotten flamed to a crisp. I mean, God knows I’m not going to use a Google product, so I’m sticking with…

Net neutrality is almost the opposite of government or anybody else "controlling" the internet. That's like opposing the Second Amendment as being government trying to control guns, since it's a federal law that has to do with guns.

Re: Mozilla Fights for Net Neutrality This May (and Always)

#130

Post by erikpukinskis » Sat, May 12, 2018, 3:34 PM UTC

matte_black wrote: post #8

marricks wrote: post #4

It's amazing how "politicized" net neutrality has become in the last 6 months. A year ago I couldn't find anyone honestly arguing to repeal it. Reddit, HN, everywhere I looked people (and companies) besides ISPs said repealing net neutrality was bad. In comes Trump and Ajit Pia, and suddenly there is another side, the "against government regulation". It's a talking point anyone who watches Fox News or reads the Wall…

The worst thing that ever happened was liberals wrapping their arms around Net Neutrality and claiming it as “their” issue. This immediately caused a knee jerk reaction in conservatives who will oppose anything liberals will support and thus the coalition to repeal Net Neutrality was born and ultimately triumphed.

Is this what politics has come to? If liberals want conservatives to help with an important issue, they have to pretend to be against it so conservatives won’t have a tantrum?

Maybe. Stealth liberalism.