Live data from Hacker News

My Dad Painted Jethro Tull’s ‘Aqualung’ Cover and It’s Haunted Him

theoutline.com

81–90 of 122 posts

Re: My Dad Painted Jethro Tull’s ‘Aqualung’ Cover and It’s Haunted Him

#81
> the two men hammered out the contours of a handshake deal: For $1,500 (approximately $10,130 in 2018 dollars) dad would deliver three paintings.

> In Ellis’ Midtown office, the last painting was delivered. Ellis cut him a check and said something to the effect of, "Oh thanks very much, these are great,” dad recalls.

Am I missing something here? Seems obvious why lawyers won't take on this guy since 1) there was no contract and 2) the no-contract agreement was not broken.

Re: My Dad Painted Jethro Tull’s ‘Aqualung’ Cover and It’s Haunted Him

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you sell a man or women a piece of artwork, yes they can put it up in their home and people can see it. > If they take that piece of art and copy it and put it on a book cover .. now that's not right. ...where exactly do you think book covers come from? > If I sell you a piece of art, you don't get the copyright for that art. If you sell me art that I'm going to use for a book cover, I will in fact get the copyr…

yeah, selling a painting is different from granting a copyright for a painting. that's the point.

The artist entered into the agreement knowing full well what it was going to be used for.

Re: My Dad Painted Jethro Tull’s ‘Aqualung’ Cover and It’s Haunted Him

#83

I couldn't imagine getting so caught up in one piece of work. I'd like to imagine I would have just immediately turned around and told everyone I was the guy who made the cover for Aqualung and focus my energy on the next project. Also, it's very presumptive to assume I deserve a cut of your project just because it is successful. Not only do I claim my artwork had something to do with it (I doubt many people cared mu…

The real distinction is between "paid upfront a specific price", known as "work for hire", versus a royalty-based system.

It's all about risk and option value. Most creative works never make a profit, so how much is a profit share worth? Most people need cashflow; if you need to pay rent at the end of the month, how much is a payout worth that's distributed over your life plus 70 years afterwards?

Re: My Dad Painted Jethro Tull’s ‘Aqualung’ Cover and It’s Haunted Him

#84

This happened to an ex of mine. While we were together she was asked to do the album artwork for a top international-name stadium-filling band. I persuaded her to charge £10k, which was around what she earned a year. She was going to charge much less. Neither of us considered future revenue from licensing or merchandise, so it was signed as a one-off work-for-hire deal. The manager still grumbled about how pushy she…

I think the article artist didn't expect more at the time. The "haunting" implies that in hindsight they believed they should have charged more, but that's not really how things work.

Re: My Dad Painted Jethro Tull’s ‘Aqualung’ Cover and It’s Haunted Him

#85
post #21
post #2

I have trouble feeling bad for the guy. He was paid what he had agreed to.

Easy thing to say. But imagine Zuckerberg had hired you to code the first version of his site, paid you a few thousand bucks, and then he went on to be one of the richest men in America? We here in SV have evolved a culture and a set of business practices that do a much better job of compensating us fairly. We make good cash money, and we tend to get a share of the success when things get big. It's not like we as ind…

> Easy thing to say. But imagine Zuckerberg had hired you to code the first version of his site, paid you a few thousand bucks, and then he went on to be one of the richest men in America?

That may haunt me, but I still wouldn't deserve any more than what I got.

Re: My Dad Painted Jethro Tull’s ‘Aqualung’ Cover and It’s Haunted Him

#86

> the two men hammered out the contours of a handshake deal: For $1,500 (approximately $10,130 in 2018 dollars) dad would deliver three paintings. > In Ellis’ Midtown office, the last painting was delivered. Ellis cut him a check and said something to the effect of, "Oh thanks very much, these are great,” dad recalls. Am I missing something here? Seems obvious why lawyers won't take on this guy since 1) there was no…

There's definitely a contract, just a verbal one with no record. The lack of a written copyright assignment allowing reproduction sounds like a problem to me, but the law has undoubtedly changed over the years.

The thing that annoys me about cases like this is the music industry's vampiric determination to get every last dollar out of someone copying MP3s, while being blasé about actually getting money to the right creatives.

Royalty issues can destroy bands. Often the litigation can consume more money than the royalties are worth, because people are hung up on what they "deserve".

Re: My Dad Painted Jethro Tull’s ‘Aqualung’ Cover and It’s Haunted Him

#88
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But imagine Zuckerberg had hired you to code the first version of his site, paid you a few thousand bucks, and then he went on to be one of the richest men in America? Would you be willing to give the lion's share of the money you were paid to code it back if the site flopped? > We here in SV have evolved a culture and a set of business practices that do a much better job of compensating us fairly. It'ss not cultur…

>> But imagine Zuckerberg had hired you to code the first version of his site, paid you a few thousand bucks, and then he went on to be one of the richest men in America? > Would you be willing to give the lion's share of the money you were paid to code it back if the site flopped? That's why you'd only get a little bit of the money, rather than half. But it still makes a lot more sense than 0% > If I'm a farmer, and…

Ok it is quite normal that people do not understand risks and costs involved in running enterprise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damocles

Re: My Dad Painted Jethro Tull’s ‘Aqualung’ Cover and It’s Haunted Him

#89

I couldn't imagine getting so caught up in one piece of work. I'd like to imagine I would have just immediately turned around and told everyone I was the guy who made the cover for Aqualung and focus my energy on the next project. Also, it's very presumptive to assume I deserve a cut of your project just because it is successful. Not only do I claim my artwork had something to do with it (I doubt many people cared mu…

That's the point: Artists at that time weren't protected enough to retain copyright over their work. They are now. It's not whether "you actually have money now", it's that "you're making money with something I created and I deserve a piece of that too"

So If you make a lot of money On Uber with your Tesla, they “deserve” a piece of that too? A deal is a deal, he sold the art up front without any royalty, that is in him and he was in no way cheated, had he done the same deal with 20 other covers of bands that disn’t make it big he would not be complaining.

Re: My Dad Painted Jethro Tull’s ‘Aqualung’ Cover and It’s Haunted Him

#90
post #21
post #2

I have trouble feeling bad for the guy. He was paid what he had agreed to.

Easy thing to say. But imagine Zuckerberg had hired you to code the first version of his site, paid you a few thousand bucks, and then he went on to be one of the richest men in America? We here in SV have evolved a culture and a set of business practices that do a much better job of compensating us fairly. We make good cash money, and we tend to get a share of the success when things get big. It's not like we as ind…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN