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All images of the Facebook ads Russians purchased during the election

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Re: All images of the Facebook ads Russians purchased during the election

#71

Post by kolpa »

15155 wrote: post #43
stefan_ wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing could ever make compromise more unlikely than a winner take all voting system that has then predictably created exactly two parties whose followers again following the incentives rarely have an original though beyond "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

> winner take all voting system It was pretty entertaining watching people complain about the electoral college system in the 2016 election. "Why should someone in Wyoming have more of a vote than someone in California!?!" No mention of winner takes all, though: that would enable a certain basket of deplorables in CA to vote (and have it mean something.)

You're entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

The State of California has passed a law declaring its opposition to "winner take all".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Intersta...

Re: All images of the Facebook ads Russians purchased during the election

#72

Post by eric_h »

dilap wrote: post #67
eric_h wrote: post #60

This is really a pretty fascinating example of psyops in the wild. Propaganda for both "tribes" assembled in opposition over various issues in order to sow more division between them. Imagery clearly designed to influence with emotion, twisting the dials of fear, anger and pride in the audience. The power to disseminate information (or disinformation) is not one that should be taken lightly. It seems that most of the…

how are these any different than the standard appeal to emotion arguments that groups make in good faith? e.g., why is an ad trying to raise awareness about black lives matter from russia any different than an ad trying to raise awareness about black lives matter from black lives matter? > The power to disseminate information (or disinformation) is not one that should be taken lightly. curious to know if you believe…

> how are these any different than the standard appeal to emotion arguments that groups make in good faith?

That's what's so fascinating about this. I don't see a reasonable way to prevent it from happening. The tools optimized for extracting money from people are also apparently pretty good at sowing discord.

> curious to know if you believe the power to disseminate info should be regulated by the govt.

The term "pirate radio" is a thing.

The internet democratized the power to disseminate information without permission or consequence (with some exceptions, obviously), and I think that's a good thing.

Honestly at this point the only reasonable solution I can come up with is a "one weird trick" ad campaign that directs people to a magically effective MOOC on critical thinking.

Re: All images of the Facebook ads Russians purchased during the election

#73

Post by dilap »

jryan49 wrote: post #69
dilap wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how are these any different than the standard appeal to emotion arguments that groups make in good faith? e.g., why is an ad trying to raise awareness about black lives matter from russia any different than an ad trying to raise awareness about black lives matter from black lives matter? > The power to disseminate information (or disinformation) is not one that should be taken lightly. curious to know if you believe…

Some of the ads I was reading were would take extreme stances that make the other side get a distorted view of a group. I saw an LGBT ad from Russia that suggested we make it illegal for heterosexuals to adopt. This would do damage to said movements in that people will ignore their legitimate messages as well when them deem them extremists.

good point; that could indeed cause 'unnatural' dissension.

(a related phenomenon that occurs even w/o impostors: people in group A tend to pick the most outlandish, crazy members of opposition group B to critique (and vice-versa); each group, by focusing their criticism & attention on the least-reasonable members of the opposing group, becomes convinced that only unreasonable people are in the opposition. (and any large group will have unreasonable members, of course.))

Re: All images of the Facebook ads Russians purchased during the election

#74

Post by roywiggins »

eric_h wrote: post #72
dilap wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how are these any different than the standard appeal to emotion arguments that groups make in good faith? e.g., why is an ad trying to raise awareness about black lives matter from russia any different than an ad trying to raise awareness about black lives matter from black lives matter? > The power to disseminate information (or disinformation) is not one that should be taken lightly. curious to know if you believe…

> how are these any different than the standard appeal to emotion arguments that groups make in good faith? That's what's so fascinating about this. I don't see a reasonable way to prevent it from happening. The tools optimized for extracting money from people are also apparently pretty good at sowing discord. > curious to know if you believe the power to disseminate info should be regulated by the govt. The term "pi…

The internet was not quite so bad before content recommendation engines. It was very much a "pull" experience, other than banner ads for porn and malware.

Now, Google and Facebook can specialize their content directly to you and your interests. Watch a slightly out of mainstream video? Maybe you would like this one that's further out there. And the more you click, the more YouTube thinks it knows you, and it can keep feeding you worse stuff. It's not that it's being malicious exactly, but it's got an ability to push you that Web 1.0 just didn't have.

It used to be that you would go down a link rabbit hole and maybe find some really awful stuff, but the next day the only thing that remembers it is your own browser. Nobody comes along and starts emailing you about it.

Re: All images of the Facebook ads Russians purchased during the election

#75

Post by trothamel »

newsat13 wrote: post #29

That was anti-climatic. How exactly did these ads sway the election? In fact, many of them are pro-gay and have liberal idea.

I don't believe the Russian goal was to sway the election. I think it was to try to exploit identity politics on both sides, to make the US less united, and hence to distract attention from Russia and what they've been doing. (For example, in Crimea - remember that?)

It's worked really well, and keeps working today.

Re: All images of the Facebook ads Russians purchased during the election

#76

Post by eric_h »

roywiggins wrote: post #74
eric_h wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how are these any different than the standard appeal to emotion arguments that groups make in good faith? That's what's so fascinating about this. I don't see a reasonable way to prevent it from happening. The tools optimized for extracting money from people are also apparently pretty good at sowing discord. > curious to know if you believe the power to disseminate info should be regulated by the govt. The term "pi…

The internet was not quite so bad before content recommendation engines. It was very much a "pull" experience, other than banner ads for porn and malware. Now, Google and Facebook can specialize their content directly to you and your interests. Watch a slightly out of mainstream video? Maybe you would like this one that's further out there. And the more you click, the more YouTube thinks it knows you, and it can keep…

> The internet was not quite so bad before content recommendation engines. It was very much a "pull" experience, other than banner ads for porn and malware.

Very true, and because of that the depth of the internet was not available to the uninitiated. The "push" of recommendation engines opened up a world of possibilities for the denizens of the internet who didn't know how to find new things that would interest them beyond typing the name of a site into a url bar.

It also opened up a world of possibilities for monetization, and here we are.

Re: All images of the Facebook ads Russians purchased during the election

#77

Post by chris11 »

jryan49 wrote: post #69
dilap wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how are these any different than the standard appeal to emotion arguments that groups make in good faith? e.g., why is an ad trying to raise awareness about black lives matter from russia any different than an ad trying to raise awareness about black lives matter from black lives matter? > The power to disseminate information (or disinformation) is not one that should be taken lightly. curious to know if you believe…

Some of the ads I was reading were would take extreme stances that make the other side get a distorted view of a group. I saw an LGBT ad from Russia that suggested we make it illegal for heterosexuals to adopt. This would do damage to said movements in that people will ignore their legitimate messages as well when them deem them extremists.

I think this showed another more fundamental problem with Facebook. Their focus on increasing user engagement can end up putting users in hyper-partisan walled gardens. Then people can end up less willing to compromise.

Re: All images of the Facebook ads Russians purchased during the election

#78

Post by a1369209993 »

dilap wrote: post #67
eric_h wrote: post #60

This is really a pretty fascinating example of psyops in the wild. Propaganda for both "tribes" assembled in opposition over various issues in order to sow more division between them. Imagery clearly designed to influence with emotion, twisting the dials of fear, anger and pride in the audience. The power to disseminate information (or disinformation) is not one that should be taken lightly. It seems that most of the…

how are these any different than the standard appeal to emotion arguments that groups make in good faith? e.g., why is an ad trying to raise awareness about black lives matter from russia any different than an ad trying to raise awareness about black lives matter from black lives matter? > The power to disseminate information (or disinformation) is not one that should be taken lightly. curious to know if you believe…

> standard appeal to emotion attack

That is the RCE vulnerability.

Re: All images of the Facebook ads Russians purchased during the election

#79

Post by Nydhal »

minitel wrote: post #4
mieseratte wrote: post #2

Having seen my fair share of vitriolic content during the past election cycle, most of these images honestly seem quiet tame.

I think the point is that they pander to both sides of any argument to increase the divide and lessen the chances of society making a sane compromise. Much more effective than just spewing insanity and hyperbole. Extreme progressives would destabilize the country by setting up structural racism and sexism in order to achieve "equity", dissolving borders, gutting the police, and over taxing companies. Extreme rightist…

> militarizing the police

That's where the right-left model breaks. This is not an extreme right wing thing, it's statist authoritarianism. Can be embraced by both sides, extreme or not.

Re: All images of the Facebook ads Russians purchased during the election

#80

Post by smackmybishop »

kolpa wrote: post #71
15155 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> winner take all voting system It was pretty entertaining watching people complain about the electoral college system in the 2016 election. "Why should someone in Wyoming have more of a vote than someone in California!?!" No mention of winner takes all, though: that would enable a certain basket of deplorables in CA to vote (and have it mean something.)

You're entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts. The State of California has passed a law declaring its opposition to "winner take all". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Intersta...

I'm fascinated to know how you think that's in opposition to "winner take all."
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