Genetics and Eugenics in Frank Herbert's DUNE
1–10 of 26 posts
Re: Genetics and Eugenics in Frank Herbert's DUNE
#2Very interesting, but fantastic genetic traits like precognition and ancestral memories are (in fiction) a traditional good fit for the Mendelian inheritance pattern of few and high impact mutations.
Re: Genetics and Eugenics in Frank Herbert's DUNE
#3Very interesting, but fantastic genetic traits like precognition and ancestral memories are (in fiction) a traditional good fit for the Mendelian inheritance pattern of few and high impact mutations.
I've idly wondered how you could interpret all the mutations in X-Men, but I don't know enough about the families or inheritance to make any reasonable guesses (I've seen a few cartoons and movies and that's about it). I know mutants generally have mutant kids but don't the powers differ? Which doesn't make much sense and I can't retcon it.
I have noticed, however, that in _My Little Pony_ (which I've finally gotten around to watching), it seems like earth/pegasus/unicorn traits are not races or subspecies analogous to human races but instead likely follow a polytomous liability threshold pattern. Why? Because we see the Cakes, two earth ponies, manage to have a pair of pegasus and unicorn fraternal twins, and when queried, mention they have some pegasus/unicorn ancestry. Since the pony type is mutually exclusive (we never see any pony who is both pegasus and unicorn, aside from the alicorns who are special magically-created cases), I don't know of any kind of common Mendelian trait pattern which would give a single type, normally breed true, and allow two earth pony parents with mixed ancestry to have kids who are both unicorns and pegasi (one non-earth-pony offspring would be fine as it would simply indicate a recessive discrete trait, but two different others? I don't see how that works unless you postulate some sort of multi-locus Mendelian trait with dominance of earth trait by both unicorn and pegasus, I guess?). Whereas if it's polytomous liability threshold, then that would be possible albeit unlikely, since they could inherit different fractions of ancestry and get pushed across different type thresholds.
Re: Genetics and Eugenics in Frank Herbert's DUNE
#4Very interesting, but fantastic genetic traits like precognition and ancestral memories are (in fiction) a traditional good fit for the Mendelian inheritance pattern of few and high impact mutations.
I've idly wondered how you could interpret all the mutations in X-Men, but I don't know enough about the families or inheritance to make any reasonable guesses (I've seen a few cartoons and movies and that's about it). I know mutants generally have mutant kids but don't the powers differ? Which doesn't make much sense and I can't retcon it. I have noticed, however, that in _My Little Pony_ (which I've finally gotten…
As far as the X-Men go, very often children have similar (if not enhanced) powers compared to their parents c.f. Jean Grey and her multiple-universe-spanning offspring with some variation on tele{pathy,kinesis}.
However, in the cases where the mutation seems to not be directly inherited, the explanation lies in the "implementation details", as it were. When the X-gene activates (due to puberty, stress, etc.), it releases a protein that goes on to cause mutations in surrounding genes, seemingly at-random but not so random that you have "mutant" teens dropping dead of sudden protein deficiencies.
Re: Genetics and Eugenics in Frank Herbert's DUNE
#5Very interesting, but fantastic genetic traits like precognition and ancestral memories are (in fiction) a traditional good fit for the Mendelian inheritance pattern of few and high impact mutations.
I've idly wondered how you could interpret all the mutations in X-Men, but I don't know enough about the families or inheritance to make any reasonable guesses (I've seen a few cartoons and movies and that's about it). I know mutants generally have mutant kids but don't the powers differ? Which doesn't make much sense and I can't retcon it. I have noticed, however, that in _My Little Pony_ (which I've finally gotten…
Why not two traits? One that determines if (Earth || !Earth) (call it the "Magic" gene) and one that determines (Pegasus || Unicorn) but only if the other gene is active.
Re: Genetics and Eugenics in Frank Herbert's DUNE
#6Very interesting, but fantastic genetic traits like precognition and ancestral memories are (in fiction) a traditional good fit for the Mendelian inheritance pattern of few and high impact mutations.
I've idly wondered how you could interpret all the mutations in X-Men, but I don't know enough about the families or inheritance to make any reasonable guesses (I've seen a few cartoons and movies and that's about it). I know mutants generally have mutant kids but don't the powers differ? Which doesn't make much sense and I can't retcon it. I have noticed, however, that in _My Little Pony_ (which I've finally gotten…
Mendelian ponies could have a single gene with 3 alleles, E/U/P, with EE, EU and EP earth, UU and PP respectively unicorn and pegasus and UP either unicorn or pegasus at random (i.e. depending on other genes). If the two parents are EU and EP they are earth but offspring of all three types is possible.
An even simpler model: one gene with two alleles, earth and fancy, earth dominant, fancy ponies become unicorns or pegasi depending on rainbow intensity or other non-genetic factors.
In the Dune case a very Mendelian concern with preserving a few important mutations in very narrow bloodlines could be combined with a secondary requirement for high IQ, physical fitness etc. that could be (inefficiently) satisfied by focusing on "well bred" aristocracy that benefits from marrying genetically far above average people.
Re: Genetics and Eugenics in Frank Herbert's DUNE
#7I always assumed that the BG were directing genetic averages across whole populations, and/or had such a deep understanding of genetics that they could predict the exact result of two peoples genes mixing.
If you could determine with 99% accuracy the exact genome of a child by their parents genomes alone, would you be able to optimize humans across given a relatively small set?
Re: Genetics and Eugenics in Frank Herbert's DUNE
#8This is the best write-up of Dune that I’ve ever read. Some of gwern’s stuff is kind of overcooked to a fault, and with intense focus, misses the broader prevailing drift of the topic at hand, but gwern’s got me on this one. It’s a good read.
Re: Genetics and Eugenics in Frank Herbert's DUNE
#9I always assumed that the BG were directing genetic averages across whole populations, and/or had such a deep understanding of genetics that they could predict the exact result of two peoples genes mixing. If you could determine with 99% accuracy the exact genome of a child by their parents genomes alone, would you be able to optimize humans across given a relatively small set?
Except that gene mixing is a highly quantum mechanical process, and so we are precluded from predicting the result of a single event. We can only predict the probability of a particular mix of genes. They could direct averages, but not individual events.
Re: Genetics and Eugenics in Frank Herbert's DUNE
#10I always assumed that the BG were directing genetic averages across whole populations, and/or had such a deep understanding of genetics that they could predict the exact result of two peoples genes mixing. If you could determine with 99% accuracy the exact genome of a child by their parents genomes alone, would you be able to optimize humans across given a relatively small set?
Except that gene mixing is a highly quantum mechanical process, and so we are precluded from predicting the result of a single event. We can only predict the probability of a particular mix of genes. They could direct averages, but not individual events.
Of course with the spice and mentats, they could probably use some limited form of prescience to explore possible avenues the future was likely to take. It is a universe in which magic, by another name, works.