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Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

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Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#271
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the government suppresses the history of the event in China, how are the protesters of tomorrow supposed to know to think twice?

Actually, everyone knows about it and people talk very openly about it off the record, but no one is willing to talk about it in a recorded medium with a Westerner.

don't think people born after 90's have any idea of those, or 99% of them have no idea whatsoever, so yes, history can be revised at will, at least in the short term.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even better, those who expect ot but have labelled an employee "key" to say they are ot-exempt... I later found out it has a legal definition. Key employee, in the ot law, means you have some profit sharing or stake in the company. Doesn't matter how "key" you are to the operations. FYI. I bet lots of people are getting shafted by this.

Exempt means you don't report hours. My first professional job after college was with one of the big consulting firms. I reported hours, and I got paid overtime after 40. I was expected to log at least 40 hours a week on something -- could be internal/self-training or client billable. In all the other jobs I've had I did not report hours. I am hired to get a job done. If that sometimes takes me 30 hours a week and so…

That's not how the law on this works. It wasn't changed until around 2015, which is why so many companies started doing funNgames with employee wages and hours around then in anticipation of the change.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can actually speak English to a level high enough to communicate effectively with monoglot English speakers this is absolutely true. Unfortunately lots of degree programmes that aim for that level of fluency do not achieve it. I’ve worked in Shanghai for the past six years. This is definitely one of the cities with the highest fluency in English in China. Most educated professionals have some basic competency…

Living in Beijing, I was amazed in Shanghai when the taxi driver actually spoke to me in English. That would just never happen in Beijing. English wasn't uncommon in the professional world, however.

A taxi driver who speaks good English is pretty rare here too but plenty speak a little. Definitely a minority but they exist.

English is common in the professional world, absolutely, but it’s not necessary for a high level professional career like it would be in most of Western Europe.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Living in Beijing, I was amazed in Shanghai when the taxi driver actually spoke to me in English. That would just never happen in Beijing. English wasn't uncommon in the professional world, however.

A taxi driver who speaks good English is pretty rare here too but plenty speak a little. Definitely a minority but they exist. English is common in the professional world, absolutely, but it’s not necessary for a high level professional career like it would be in most of Western Europe.

If you are a foreigner good English is most definitely essential unless your Chinese is 大山 good. But I agree with your point!

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#275
post #246
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a meeting for party members, often people (or the families of people) angling for local government jobs. Of course there'll be some True Believers but the subtext is it's basically a networking event. So yes, definitely like Church ;)

I find something ironic about this, but of course it's unfortunately true. Until last year my "Church" experience was mostly on and off spending time at a Buddhist monastery which was more about taking part in an isolated community and retreating from the world. Wanting to find something similar I started going to the local Anglican Church and being the studious kind of person I am decided to read the Book of Common…

Oh it's definitely true. To the extent that I, an atheist with a long history of moving or being moved to random cities in which I know basically no-one, have seriously considered going to church there - just to get some social interaction and maybe even friends in a self-selecting group of vaguely judeo-christian tradition, active, gregarious people who might even be interested in bettering themselves, philosophy and making the world a better place. Damn, I'm talking myself into it again.

And that's an interesting quote. Perhaps that rule would be better reinstated.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#276
post #56

As an engine tech for a diesel truck service center, I can seriously sympathize with where young chinese people are coming from. excessive overtime, even paid , can turn you into a miserable zombie pretty fast. somewhat quickly after my apprenticeship I was gifted quite a bit of nonsense overtime from the old timers. rotor turns, oil changes, timing, valve clearance, etc... were all heaped up on me until I was spendi…

At least you got paid for your overtime. Every salaried job I've had has been exempt from overtime. About 10 years ago, I spent a 6-month stretch pulling 100 hour weeks. Only went home every other day during the week, and that was mostly for a shower, an hour of sleep and a change of clothes. Other days, it was a shower on-site and a change of underwear & socks, no sleep. Got to go home on Friday nights, but back in…

And as soon as you complete that big project the employer can easily fire you. Why give up anything for free?

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#277
post #56

As an engine tech for a diesel truck service center, I can seriously sympathize with where young chinese people are coming from. excessive overtime, even paid , can turn you into a miserable zombie pretty fast. somewhat quickly after my apprenticeship I was gifted quite a bit of nonsense overtime from the old timers. rotor turns, oil changes, timing, valve clearance, etc... were all heaped up on me until I was spendi…

The thing I don't get about these stories: don't you have a contract specifying working hours? My contract says 8 hours a day, for x$ per month, this is what we agreed to and this is what I deliver. Asking me to do 12h instead of 8h would be the same as paying me 66% of my salary at the end of the month instead of 100%. That's a blatant breaking of our contract, why would I agree to that?

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it look like the workers own the means of production in China or is it a mix of government and private capitalists? If so, that's state and private capitalism. If the workers own the means of production it means they literally are the managers of the factories in a democratic fashion. You wouldn't see much useless overtime if that happened.

That is the joke. The communist government, that was supposed to liberate the people, created this situation. It didn't work like it was supposed to did it?

My point was that the joke is common but incorrect. If someone is telling workers what to do (the government) you've just replaced private rulers with public ones. That could be considered a step up or a step down, but we haven't gotten to real democracy and real freedom. Just because the Chinese call themselves socialist doesn't make it so, just as you might criticize American capitalists for taking subsidies from the government for not really being a free market.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#279
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the joke. The communist government, that was supposed to liberate the people, created this situation. It didn't work like it was supposed to did it?

China is not communist, it's state socialism! No one has ever tried communism. (Except that they obviously tried state socialism, which is supposed to be the precursor to socialism, which itself is a precursor to communism, but going through the precursor steps to communism doesn't count as trying communism because... reasons.)

This is not quite right. The socialists and communists both believe in the overthrow of capitalism, and may have similar ideas about the endpoint, but their means are different. Socialists are peaceful parliamentarians while communists believe in forceful revolution. They have been even more constrained in the wake of the USSR where Lenin advocated the idea of a vanguard party and due to their initial success, other communists modeled their revolutions on them.

The idea Lenin expressed in "State and Revolution" was the idea of the wilting of the state into nothing as it becomes useless without class antagonisms to subdue.

If you follow Marx, the only universal, the step that both China and the USSR skipped which might be why they ended up the way they did, was that Socialism is supposed to evolve from advanced capitalism which produces the abundance of tools and facilities that make a new more equitable highly developed civilization possible.

The interesting lede here is that the USA is, unlike a poor peasant country, in a state of advanced capitalism and is the most wealthy country in world history. It is also the imperial power that oppresses the rest of the world rather than vice versa. These unique circumstances raise the possibility that Marx's vision might be best fulfilled here, not over there.

Re: Young Chinese are sick of working long hours

#280
post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call me stupid but I cannot see how you are agreeing with your parent comment. It basically states "don't complain and get back to work", and you basically said it's normal for people to want their hard work to pay off and are thus pushing back against insane working schedules. I don't see the connection, help me here.

I was agreeing with this part: "There's no such things as "human rights standards" for how much you should work per week." A 40 hour work week isn't (in my view) a "human right" in the way that life, liberty and property are rights. It's an exchange of time/work for money. People can choose to work a lot or work a little depending on how they value their time vs their leisure.

I believe the assertion about basic human rights is rooted more in research about maximum "productive" hours a day/week. Scientists have proven that hunter-gatherer tribes work anywhere between 10 to 20h a week and are doing just fine.

The 40h a week is pretty artificial default that has been imposed on most of the people by business interests. That's how I view it historically at least.

So we might not agree on slippery terms like "basic human rights" but modern phenomena as burnout and work depression are pretty widespread already and can thus serve as an example as to how the current workload standards might be broken.

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