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Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

cs.cmu.edu

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Re: Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

#281

Post by dgacmu »

learc83 wrote: post #252
fixermark wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stand corrected: since I took the curriculum, functional programming requirements seem to have been substituted with an option to do higher-level systems-engineering electives (such as 15-414). And the systems elective has been expanded to include parallel and distributed systems. The key difference on the deep-theory side is that CS and AI appear to swap out deep-diving into discrete math for deep-diving into stat…

>The key difference on the deep-theory side is that CS and AI appear to swap out deep-diving into discrete math for deep-diving into statistics and statistical modeling. I'd consider those different enough to warrant separate degree tracks, personally. What discrete math classes were removed from the AI degree? >(Your opinion of networking is noted but I do not share it, being somewhat familiar with what that course…

We actually have a set of criteria for what makes a qualifying systems elective. As with many things at CMU, we don't generally care what details you learn. We care greatly what higher-level concepts you get exposed to, and the systems courses are the place we try to focus on the development of abstractions; modularity; isolation; reasoning about failures and complexity; integrating security concerns. They're also the courses where students are required to work on projects large enough to blow out their cache -- multi-week or month projects that force you to think reasonably about how you divide your design into pieces so that you can coherently reason about the ensemble.

We're pretty much equally happy if you hit layering in the network class or thinking about the filesystem and kernel VFS layers in the OS class - or the modular structure of a modern compiler. Tackling the idea of reliability through replication in distributed systems (via a lot of different mechanisms, but with a decent dose of Paxos), or via the Reliable Storage module in 15-410, or in DB. Getting additional hardware architecture exposure through compilers or the parallel class. Thinking about communication using a fast local interconnect (parallel), the internet (networks & DS), or IPC (OS). Compilers can be more or less of a systems course depending on who teaches it, but it's generally got such a strong architectural component that it flies.

It's much like programming languages. We don't care much if you graduate knowing a particular language -- any CMU CS graduate should be able to pick up a new language in short order. We care greatly that you've been exposed to a mix of programming styles and thinking -- imperative, functional, and logical or declarative, and can successfully use those tools to reason about code, program structure, algorithms, and data structures.

So no, we absolutely don't consider it critical that you take any specific systems course, but we do consider it critical -- for the CS major -- that you be exposed to the broad set of systems concepts we teach in them. That's why we start them in 15-213 and then reinforce them with one upper-division systems elective requirement.

Re: Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

#282

Post by netheril96 »

kendallpark wrote: post #70

If you are an undergraduate in computer science these days, it is very hard to get into advanced AI/ML classes, which are typically reserved for graduate students. Back before the ML goldrush, a strong CS undergrad interested in AI could elect to take advanced coursework beyond the introductory AI class. Nowadays, good luck getting off the waitlist! Having an official "AI major" does at least tell students, "Hey, we…

> "Hey, we are making it a priority that undergraduates have access to our rich AI curriculum."

Maybe these AI classes will be reserved for AI majors, so regular CS majors still have to pray for getting off the waitlist.

Re: Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

#283

Post by learc83 »

dgacmu wrote: post #279
learc83 wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But none of those are required in that section. You could take Software Foundations of Security and Privacy, or Foundations of Cyber-Physical Systems.

Funny you'd pick those two. :-) Software Foundations includes, for example, the use of type systems to ensure bug-freedom, program semantics, and more. Matt Fredrikson focuses on the intersection of formal programming languages research and security. For example, lecture 3: https://15316-cmu.github.io/lectures/03-safety.pdf Cyber-physical is one of the hardest classes I've ever seen. Seriously - it combines very soli…

It does look like there are portions of those classes that are similar to a PL semantics course, which in turn covers some of the concepts you'd cover in an upper-division FP course. It's still a bit of stretch.

After I looked over the assignments for a section of Software Foundations, I don't think that taking an AI class instead would make much of a difference when it comes to having a solid foundation in functional programming, which is what the GP was talking about.

Re: Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

#284

Post by tim333 »

jknoepfler wrote: post #164

I really do not like this move. AI and Machine Learning require graduate-level mathematical and computational skills. I don't think it's productive to pretend that we can train someone to be even remotely useful in these fields in four years of an undergraduate education. It sounds like an attempt to get around the fundamentals of csci to "skip to the interesting bits," which will produce graduates with a cursory kno…

>even remotely useful in these fields in four years ...Condensed Matter

I just looked up the Cambridge physics tripos and you do condensed matter in years 3 and 4. You can learn a lot in 4 years. Admittedly it's a specialisation in a general science degree.

Re: Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

#285

Post by anonu »

So much negativity on this discussion. I'm very surprised to see this from the HN crowd. Guess what? Computer Science, Engineering, etc... is getting more complicated and complex. So seeing a discipline (assuming this is CS) get broken down into more distinct groupings is actually a good phenomenon. Of course there's always foundational knowledge that is important to learn - but with time I feel like that information becomes de-emphasized to focus on higher-levels of understanding and knowledge.

On another note, CMU was always very good at cross-disciplinary studies. (Building Virtual Worlds comes to mind). As the article points out, this new degree bridges over to the humanities and ethics. With where we are today with AI, isn't it a good thing to train the AI developers of the future to think about the implications of their work?

Re: Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

#286

Post by QML »

gowld wrote: post #262
QML wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there may be a lot of demand for AI/ML, I’m concerned to whether there are enough students with the proper foundations in math and stats to do well. New classes such as Data Science seem to just instruct students how to use algorithms and not why.

Are you talking about undergraduate courses, or non-accredited certificate courses? We've had stuff like A+ / Cisco / Java certifications for decades. They fill an important niche, but they aren't how industry leaders are trained.

Only referring to my experience as an undergrad: most students seemed to be turned away by the mathematics.

Re: Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

#287

Post by learc83 »

dgacmu wrote: post #281
learc83 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The key difference on the deep-theory side is that CS and AI appear to swap out deep-diving into discrete math for deep-diving into statistics and statistical modeling. I'd consider those different enough to warrant separate degree tracks, personally. What discrete math classes were removed from the AI degree? >(Your opinion of networking is noted but I do not share it, being somewhat familiar with what that course…

We actually have a set of criteria for what makes a qualifying systems elective. As with many things at CMU, we don't generally care what details you learn. We care greatly what higher-level concepts you get exposed to, and the systems courses are the place we try to focus on the development of abstractions; modularity; isolation; reasoning about failures and complexity; integrating security concerns. They're also th…

>It's much like programming languages. We don't care much if you graduate knowing a particular language -- any CMU CS graduate should be able to pick up a new language in short order. We care greatly that you've been exposed to a mix of programming styles and thinking -- imperative, functional, and logical or declarative, and can successfully use those tools to reason about code, program structure, algorithms, and data structures.

I completely support this philosophy.

> Compilers can be more or less of a systems course depending on who teaches it

So what happens when it's less of a systems course? Do students taking that section lack a critical component of the CS major?

Re: Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

#288

Post by GeorgeTirebiter »

anonu wrote: post #285

So much negativity on this discussion. I'm very surprised to see this from the HN crowd. Guess what? Computer Science, Engineering, etc... is getting more complicated and complex. So seeing a discipline (assuming this is CS) get broken down into more distinct groupings is actually a good phenomenon. Of course there's always foundational knowledge that is important to learn - but with time I feel like that information…

I completely agree. CS started often from the Math department, sometimes from the Engineering department. Further specialization is to be not only expected, but welcome, as complexity increases. Is there a better way?

Re: Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

#289

Post by asdsa5325 »

matthewbauer wrote: post #273
asdsa5325 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely false, I can't believe this comment is up voted. Undergrad Linear Algebra & Statistics is definitely enough for ML. In fact, they taught introductory ML at my old high school in AP CS, years ago.

Maybe for an intro course, but a degree usually means you are ready to work in that field. I’m not sure what ‘field’ that is but I assume they are looking at it for AI research.

There are AI jobs open to BS that are filled with BS CS grads. These BS AI grads are just more targeted towards these positions.

Re: Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

#290

Post by sjg007 »

matthewbauer wrote: post #275
sjg007 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I majored in AI before the current fad. It’s basically a concentration and depends on the University. It goes a little deeper on the AI side using electives.

Really? Was it an accredited program? Most of what I’ve seen before is that you get a CS degree but with a ‘focus in’ AI.

Of course it was. Accredited by the British Computer Society and the UK system. It is a Computer Science degree with an AI concentration. AI is a big enough subject for that. Why would it not be?
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