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Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

cs.cmu.edu

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Re: Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

#231

Post by aisofteng »

bertil wrote: post #217
MR4D wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can teach a kid frequentist (regular) statistics, then you can certainly teach them things like Bayesian statistics. Add things like decision trees (which you need to build something like a chatbot). In fact, a friend of mine from my freshman year (way back before everyone had computers in college) wrote a chatbot. I had never seen anything like it, and he let it loose on IRC. Was pretty cool back when things…

You are describing those models as they are being applied (and as many introduction present them) not how they can be trained. To understand whether those models converge, how to calculate the solution to even a basic linear regression, you need graduate math: matrix algebra, differential calculus, topology.

I had courses in each of those topics as part of my undergraduate math degree. There’s no reason an AI degree couldn’t include those as standard curriculum for undergraduates.

Re: Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

#232

Post by sjg007 »

jknoepfler wrote: post #164

I really do not like this move. AI and Machine Learning require graduate-level mathematical and computational skills. I don't think it's productive to pretend that we can train someone to be even remotely useful in these fields in four years of an undergraduate education. It sounds like an attempt to get around the fundamentals of csci to "skip to the interesting bits," which will produce graduates with a cursory kno…

I majored in AI before the current fad. It’s basically a concentration and depends on the University. It goes a little deeper on the AI side using electives.

Re: Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

#233

Post by lern_too_spel »

jazoom wrote: post #227
habosa wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a lie that I hear a lot from AI/ML experts. To me it reeks of gatekeeping. Yes the foundations of the field and many of the breakthroughs require this knowledge, but one can be a very effective practicioner of AI/ML techniques with a few years of undergraduate level instruction. And given how many industries are kicking the tires of AI/ML, we're going to need hordes of practicioners.

I can't create a new programming language that compiles to machine code. Maybe I shouldn't be programming? I don't see why you need to be a domain expert of the low level details to make a career out of something so useful.

That is also taught to a useful level in undergraduate coursework. You can do useful ML using only first year undergraduate statistics, linear algebra, and multivariate calculus.

Re: Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

#234

Post by joshuamorton »

triska wrote: post #146

Personally, I find the lack of logic programming, and logic in general, a rather notable property of the outlined curriculum. In fact, "logic" is nowhere explicitly mentioned in the course titles. Neither are "formal" and "method". For comparison, at the department of AI in Edinburgh, Prolog was very important and even actively developed to such an extent that current Prolog systems are still hugely influenced by "Ed…

>Also, theorem proving is an important area of computer science with many connections to AI.

I think this is only true if you use a different definition of AI than the one likely used here. Expert systems aren't considered to be very effective tools for useful "AI" anymore. You can't define a procedure to recognize a happy face in logic programming, at least not with any degree of efficiency.

Re: Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

#235

Post by bobthepanda »

rhombocombus wrote: post #199
jordancampbell wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is completely untrue - machine learning is largely undergraduate mathematics - in fact a lot of the linear algebra is commonly taught in high school. Definitely agree it's potentially narrow, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

I agree. Many of the statistical concepts can be extended from advanced undergraduate stats too. I can see how the high salaries paid in these jobs would lead to some serious gatekeeping though. My concern is that these courses will likely be taught without any deference to the ethics involved in the work done, and I think that will play an increasingly important role in years to come.

Most undergrad engineering worth its salt will require an ethics course and humanities classes broaching the topic.

The main issue is that a lot of people do not take away the intent, or can fully answer questions correctly about the intent but not actually care. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

Re: Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

#236

Post by avelis »

In Fall 2007, USF (CA) CS program allowed me to take a Grad AI course as an undergrad. However, my coursework was graded differently ss an undergrad. I had a blast taking it, learned alot but I can say the requirements to get in depth with the material require a graduate program.

Re: Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

#237

Post by MR4D »

bertil wrote: post #217
MR4D wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can teach a kid frequentist (regular) statistics, then you can certainly teach them things like Bayesian statistics. Add things like decision trees (which you need to build something like a chatbot). In fact, a friend of mine from my freshman year (way back before everyone had computers in college) wrote a chatbot. I had never seen anything like it, and he let it loose on IRC. Was pretty cool back when things…

You are describing those models as they are being applied (and as many introduction present them) not how they can be trained. To understand whether those models converge, how to calculate the solution to even a basic linear regression, you need graduate math: matrix algebra, differential calculus, topology.

To me, your statement is like saying an airline mechanic needs to have a pilot's license because he needs to know how the rudder affects the flight.

There are three different roles that I think you are conflating: Designing, Building (and maintaining), and using.

Each has a different skillset. But to think that you need to determine the convergence of models makes no sense to me. Why can't an undergrad build a simple classifier?

And in finance, CAPM uses regression. Every single finance undergrad in the country learns it. Are you implying that they can't because they don't know how the model will converge with something else?

Seriously, it really frustrates me when people look down on undergrads and say "Oh, they can't do it". Baloney. I've met tons of really smart, focused undergrads. And some pretty f-ing stupid grad students (at a PhD level to boot!).

Two decades ago, you needed some pretty heavy CS to build a web page. Today, my mom can do it. With your line of thinking, that wouldn't be possible.

Re: Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

#238

Post by throwawayjava »

graycat wrote: post #180

IMHO, a "modest proposal" for the the CMU CS AI degree, CMU CS, and much of STEM field academics: Have much of the department and program borrow from clinical medicine . So, have the department be in part a clinic for solving problems from outside academics via STEM material, information technology, CS, AI, etc. E.g., yes, continue to have seminars with graduate students and professors with, call it, solutions lookin…

Whenever it makes sense to ground research in practice, CMU professors generally do so by working with industry and govt collaborators. Many CMU CS professors also do some paid consulting on the side.

However, top tier PhD programs are not and never will be highly discounted consulting shops. At places like CMU grad students have perhaps more academic freedom than even their advisors. And good thing.

The day CMUs of the world become "Accenture with cheap student labor" is the day basic research dies.

Re: Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

#239

Post by esahione »

drngdds wrote: post #195
esahione wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha! Grad school at CMU took a chainsaw to my GPA after 1st year. Studying 16h/day and still didn't have enough time to complete all assignments and understand the material. Awesome school though, would do it again.

Serious question, from someone who hasn't had to do it: how is it possible to do productively study for 16 hours a day? Controlled substances? I don't last that long even on occasion, much less regularly.

Everyone takes Adderall. Not just that, but a lot of the time is spent explaining things to your classmates, getting answers to match our expectations, etc.

So it's not like 16 hours of reading and trying to understand the material, more like 16 hours of school work.

Re: Carnegie Mellon Launches Undergraduate Degree in Artificial Intelligence

#240

Post by srinivasan »

joshuamorton wrote: post #69

This looks good (which shouldn't be surprising coming from CMU). I'm kind of impressed by how similar this was to my undergrad curriculum (focusing on AI/ML and CS theory). Looks like a fun program. Also wow, Great Theoretical Ideas in Computer Science[1] is a hell of a course. Induction, DFAs, matchings, TMs, complexity, NP, approximation and randomization, Transducers, crypto, and quantum algos. That's a lot of mat…

“250fun”, as we ironically called it. It was intense, but the topics were covered in a very interesting way.
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