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Seaweed in Cow Feed Reduces Methane Emissions Almost Entirely

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Re: Seaweed in Cow Feed Reduces Methane Emissions Almost Entirely

#201

Post by twic »

phkahler wrote: post #111
crispweed wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As other posters have said, it seems like it can be tricky to incentivise cattle owners to add algae to their feed, check this has actually been added, in proportions that have the desired effect, and so on. But how about if governments provide subsidised feed centrally, instead, with the algae added?

What if it turns out to make healthier cows? I'm not just making that up, I think it will probably have a positive effect - cows need iodine too! Not sure if it's enough to sway farmers.

This particular iodine compound is effective precisely because it kills methanogenic gut bacteria. Given that those bacteria are a normal part of cows' gut flora, it's reasonable to worry that killing them might be bad for the cows, and would be surprising if it was good for them.

Although, of course, it might be! That's why the only way forward is to test it empirically.

Re: Seaweed in Cow Feed Reduces Methane Emissions Almost Entirely

#202

Post by lenocinor »

skosch wrote: post #139
slfnflctd wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent article, thank you for linking it. I love and appreciate my vegan friends (have been one in the past, might be again in the future), but they need to be realistic about convincing others to change deeply-ingrained eating habits. Short of an apocalyptic event, you could spend 100% of your spare time and energy trying to get people to stop eating meat and you'd be lucky to get a dozen lasting conversions. It'…

The economics of veggie proselytism actually look pretty good. Animal Charity Evaluators found that for every $11 spent in online ads, you could make one person go to a website, sign up with their email, and pledge to go vegetarian for a year. The average vegetarian [1] produces 1.5 metric tons less CO2eq per year, so this means that the online ads decrease carbon at a cost of $7.40 per ton. That's cheaper than buyin…

I think the real problem would be induced demand from cheaper prices of meat making up the difference.

Re: Seaweed in Cow Feed Reduces Methane Emissions Almost Entirely

#203

Post by hinkley »

mikec3010 wrote: post #178
hinkley wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That story just keeps on giving. > The tires, which were dumped before recycling was possible, will be trucked across the state to Florida’s west coast and burned for energy at a Wheelebrator Technologies renewable waste plant near Tampa, owned by private equity firm Energy Capital Partners. We could recycle the tires, but fuck it, let’s burn them instead so this is an unmitigated disaster.

I believe there are "green" ways to burn tires if the conditions are properly controlled and emissions captured. I saw a YT vid about a cement plant in CA that burned them in a furnace for heat to dry the concrete powder. Also, "recycling " tires isn't necessarily green because it takes enormous amounts of energy to shred them. While burning them releases energy.

I read about this thing in Florida a long time ago and got upset about it. When I was reminded about it that all rushed back.

Objectively, tires that have been underwater for decades probably are not a great raw ingredient for making bouncy surfaces for playgrounds or quiet asphalt.

But incinerating them even with emissions controls really only recovers a little bit of the embodied energy, and still makes me feel all table-flippy.

Re: Seaweed in Cow Feed Reduces Methane Emissions Almost Entirely

#204

Post by ummonk »

jsilence wrote: post #98
elbear wrote: post #89

I wonder: would there be any negative side-effects on the cows? Another way of putting it: is methane production in the gut of the cow a consequence of a useful process or is it something the cows can live without? Another question to ponder: would seaweed farming at such scale have negative consequences?

cows can not digest the cellulose ingredient in grass. essentially they foster anaerobic bacteria in their stomach which digest the cellulose. the cows live off the bacteria and their byproducts. there are several different microbiobial paths from cellulose to methane with stages including acetic acid, acetone and hydrogen. depending on the conditions in the cow some of these paths are prefered or not. I do not know…

I wonder whether the bacteria survive in the cow stomachs when the cows are only being fed kelp, and (if they don't, what happens to the cow if it is switched back to a grass diet?).

Re: Seaweed in Cow Feed Reduces Methane Emissions Almost Entirely

#205

Post by learc83 »

tomohawk wrote: post #189
rocqua wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what sense is grass fed beef more nutritious? It's a rather nebulous term, hence my question.

Eating grass provides better nutrition for the cattle, and the meat ends up with more nutrition such as omega 3s. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/heart-disease... In a feed lot, cattle are fed a diet that practically requires antibiotics to keep them alive long enough to slaughter.

They mostly use antibiotics to promote growth. Feed lots increase risk of disease because cattle are closer together, but their diet doesn't really have anything to do with the use of antibiotics.

Re: Seaweed in Cow Feed Reduces Methane Emissions Almost Entirely

#206

Post by rbkillea »

nothrabannosir wrote: post #69
abainbridge wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My understanding is that around half of the world's greenhouse gas comes from livestock That's not right. The highest number I've been able to find for the whole of agriculture is 24% of world greenhouse gas emissions. https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/global-greenhouse-gas-emiss... About 25% of that is methane from livestock ( http://old.grida.no/graphicslib/detail/greenhouse-gas-emissi... ) So livestock is about 6…

As far as I can see, those references do not mention whether they have corrected for the fact that methane is a ~20x more potent greenhouse gas than CO2. Are they counting per volume or per potency? That is an incredibly important distinction. Which, to be honest, they should have made, one way or the other.

They are in the units "greenhouse gas emissions" which corrects for the extra potency. The sad thing is that people often double-correct for such things.

Re: Seaweed in Cow Feed Reduces Methane Emissions Almost Entirely

#207

Post by sosborn »

jessaustin wrote: post #121
rmason wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. We were told that it was no longer cost effective.

All that really means is that it became cheaper to ship food from other places. If the cost of shipping went up, Hawai'i agriculture would be "cost effective" again.

Doubtful. The cost of land here is crazy high and shipping costs affect us too. The double whammy is that it is expensive to get equipment and parts out to us. And don’t forget about labor costs.

Re: Seaweed in Cow Feed Reduces Methane Emissions Almost Entirely

#208

Post by shwin »

My partner is studying the effects of cow grazing on various greenhouse gas things, and the amount of data you need to get/the number of times you need to replicate before policy makers are willing to step in, is really quite substantial.

I showed this article to her last year when it popped up, and she said "show me a large sample size and replicate it stateside and then I'll start caring."

harsh, but I think that's where we are with this kind of thing.

Re: Seaweed in Cow Feed Reduces Methane Emissions Almost Entirely

#209

Post by jessaustin »

sosborn wrote: post #207
jessaustin wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All that really means is that it became cheaper to ship food from other places. If the cost of shipping went up, Hawai'i agriculture would be "cost effective" again.

Doubtful. The cost of land here is crazy high and shipping costs affect us too. The double whammy is that it is expensive to get equipment and parts out to us. And don’t forget about labor costs.

The thread hypothesis is that there is a great deal of "idle" land. I've never been to Moloka'i and I don't know if that's true. When I lived on O'ahu it seemed that many people who basically lived on the beach would be glad to have agricultural work rather than e.g. catering to tourists. Shipping a tractor once is cheaper than shipping container-loads of vegetables every week, and that's more true the more that shipping costs rise. Tractors come from Asia now, anyway.

Re: Seaweed in Cow Feed Reduces Methane Emissions Almost Entirely

#210

Post by dghughes »

There is a big industry in seaweed harvesting carrageenan is extracted from it to use as a thickener it's used in ice cream and other products.

The 2014 study mentioned is from my region the Atlantic Veterinary College. There was a large Irish Moss industry here years ago but most of it has switched to Asian markets with cheaper labour and tropical climate.

Although there may soon be a glut of seaweed and any cattle farmers may be in luck. It seems carrageenan is the flavour of the month toxin everyone is now trying to avoid (of course it's harmless).

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