Google’s new conversational AI could eventually undermine our sense of identity • Hacker News Board

Re: Google’s new conversational AI could eventually undermine our sense of identity

#81

Post by onion2k » Thu, May 10, 2018, 3:42 PM UTC

MPSimmons wrote: post #76

onion2k wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grandmas aren't especially well-known for their razor sharp opsec skills..

That needs to change as much as anything else. We have to adapt, too. This can't be a unilateral thing. We need to change in response to the world around us, and if we don't, we won't survive.

Shifting the responsibility to stay safe from complex attacks to the user will never work for a tech company, even one with the resources available to Google. If Google Assistant is a reliable way of scamming grandmas it will fail because there'll be constant negative news about it in the press.

Re: Google’s new conversational AI could eventually undermine our sense of identity

#82

Post by fixermark » Thu, May 10, 2018, 3:42 PM UTC

evrydayhustling wrote: post #65

jerf wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If a restaurant is frustrated at an influx of robo-reservations," That's not a very compelling argument, though, because as long as those reservations manifest as people arriving and paying bills, they're unlikely to find this a problem. And as long as the calls are essentially the same as a human calling them, it's not that different. I think a lot of people in this conversation are conflating annoying phone calls…

So there's definitely a glass half empty, glass half full thing -- nobody knows for sure whether these calls will be annoying, because we've just seen a demo. We don't know if the bot will be effective in general, and we don't know if customer cancellations will be more or less common if they use the bot. It's certainly possible that it improves lives for restaurants. The problem is, the restaurants (etc.) don't get…

> if consumers make the choice to use Duplex, growth means adapting to their needs, not the recipients

How does that differ from just basic economics of being where the customer is?

Restaurants installed phones to be reachable.

Restaurants contract with web service providers to be present on the web.

Restaurants locate near available parking or buy additional land to convert into parking spaces so customers who do not walk or use mass transit can patronize them.

Restaurants get involved with systems like OpenTable or their own online booking solution to be maximally reachable to their potential customers.

If anything, this system has the advantage that restaurants have to change almost nothing about their process to be involved with it, relative to the years of previous technological changes they've adapted to.

Re: Google’s new conversational AI could eventually undermine our sense of identity

#83

Post by [deleted] » Thu, May 10, 2018, 3:44 PM UTC

bsenftner wrote: post #45

gremlinsinc wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you kidding me? It's not a cute statistical trick, it's a well-thought out mechanism to re-create in 1's and 0's how the human brain works and thinks, we're merely infants in what this will become, as we mind map the brain more - I'm sure the technology will pivot quite a bit, neural networks may be obsolete and something more powerful come along viz a viz quantum computing, but to say talking robots that can tot…

It is a cute statistical trick. It has zero insight. Current AI is a very sophisticated manipulation of past event resolution, seeking to fit a current event into past resolutions. The term "idiot savant" is closer than "artificial intelligence" - because the algorithm knows not what it is doing, why it is doing, or how it is doing. It's an idiot.

[deleted]

Re: Google’s new conversational AI could eventually undermine our sense of identity

#84

Post by Notorious_BLT » Thu, May 10, 2018, 3:48 PM UTC

ggambetta wrote: post #8

This sounds overblown. I don't think it's that different to having a (human) assistant booking a haircut or a table on your behalf. Just make Duplex introduce itself as "XXX's assistant" and leave it at that. Sure, the article is about the assistant (theoretically) using the user's own voice, so... don't do that? This would be similar to hiring a human assistant who is also a voice impersonator and saying it's you, b…

The assistant call recording actually mentions that it is making the appointment "for a client", so the first part is already covered.

Re: Google’s new conversational AI could eventually undermine our sense of identity

#85

Post by harperlee » Thu, May 10, 2018, 3:52 PM UTC

Zarel wrote: post #57

heckanoobs wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised at how well Google's awful little autodialer has been received. None of us like when we call a number and are handled by an automated script on the other end. But we are immediately okay with deploying an automated script which does our bidding? You need a Google Glass-level lack of social accuity to think siccing autodialers on barbers is okay

"None of us" is a strong word. I actually prefer scripts to humans. Scripts don't get mad at me if I take a long time to make a decision. Scripts also don't speak in heavy accents I can't understand, or get frustrated if they don't like my accent. There are downsides of scripts, mainly that they only accept information in "press button X on the keypad", which means waiting for the script to go through all possible op…

> Scripts don't get mad at me if I take a long time to make a decision.

Most IVR systems I used hang up on you if you do not provide information after 1-2 repetitions of their request. And asking for time is not an option. Which is infuriating whenever you are reaching for some piece of info.

Re: Google’s new conversational AI could eventually undermine our sense of identity

#86

Post by gowld » Thu, May 10, 2018, 4:01 PM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #72

MPSimmons wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> grandma "Alright sweetheart, just tell me what the emergency phrase is"

Grandmas aren't especially well-known for their razor sharp opsec skills..

My Grandma escaped from the Nazis. Her opsec is better than mine.

Re: Google’s new conversational AI could eventually undermine our sense of identity

#87

Post by ASalazarMX » Thu, May 10, 2018, 4:09 PM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #72

MPSimmons wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> grandma "Alright sweetheart, just tell me what the emergency phrase is"

Grandmas aren't especially well-known for their razor sharp opsec skills..

How about "Alright sweetheart, just tell me what the last chain message I sent said."

Re: Google’s new conversational AI could eventually undermine our sense of identity

#88

Post by evrydayhustling » Thu, May 10, 2018, 4:24 PM UTC

fixermark wrote: post #82

evrydayhustling wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So there's definitely a glass half empty, glass half full thing -- nobody knows for sure whether these calls will be annoying, because we've just seen a demo. We don't know if the bot will be effective in general, and we don't know if customer cancellations will be more or less common if they use the bot. It's certainly possible that it improves lives for restaurants. The problem is, the restaurants (etc.) don't get…

> if consumers make the choice to use Duplex, growth means adapting to their needs, not the recipients How does that differ from just basic economics of being where the customer is? Restaurants installed phones to be reachable. Restaurants contract with web service providers to be present on the web. Restaurants locate near available parking or buy additional land to convert into parking spaces so customers who do no…

If Google was saying, "any Restaurant can sign up to be reachable by Assistant -- we have lots of customers that will be excited to call them", your analogies would apply and we wouldn't be discussing. In all of your cases, the restaurant opted into a form of reachability.

Maybe we disagree about whether opening a phone line is opting into be called by a robot. I don't think almost any restaurant thinks of it that way, and if they did then it wouldn't be necessary to fake human vocal inflections when you call them.

The view you're expressing is what reminds me of telemarketing -- it's a presumption that the fact I open up a channel means I've authorized you to do anything you want with it.

Regarding your parking lot analogy, I think we're going to have exactly these arguments about usage of public space. Will stores with counters be ok with Drones flying in to stand in line? Stay tuned!

Re: Google’s new conversational AI could eventually undermine our sense of identity

#89

Post by Zarel » Thu, May 10, 2018, 4:34 PM UTC

harperlee wrote: post #85

Zarel wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"None of us" is a strong word. I actually prefer scripts to humans. Scripts don't get mad at me if I take a long time to make a decision. Scripts also don't speak in heavy accents I can't understand, or get frustrated if they don't like my accent. There are downsides of scripts, mainly that they only accept information in "press button X on the keypad", which means waiting for the script to go through all possible op…

> Scripts don't get mad at me if I take a long time to make a decision. Most IVR systems I used hang up on you if you do not provide information after 1-2 repetitions of their request. And asking for time is not an option. Which is infuriating whenever you are reaching for some piece of info.

Yeah, which is mildly frustrating, but it doesn't ruin my mood the way a human getting mad at me would. I just call them back once I get everything I need, and feel no rush.

Re: Google’s new conversational AI could eventually undermine our sense of identity

#90

Post by fixermark » Thu, May 10, 2018, 5:00 PM UTC

evrydayhustling wrote: post #88

fixermark wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if consumers make the choice to use Duplex, growth means adapting to their needs, not the recipients How does that differ from just basic economics of being where the customer is? Restaurants installed phones to be reachable. Restaurants contract with web service providers to be present on the web. Restaurants locate near available parking or buy additional land to convert into parking spaces so customers who do no…

If Google was saying, "any Restaurant can sign up to be reachable by Assistant -- we have lots of customers that will be excited to call them", your analogies would apply and we wouldn't be discussing. In all of your cases, the restaurant opted into a form of reachability. Maybe we disagree about whether opening a phone line is opting into be called by a robot. I don't think almost any restaurant thinks of it that wa…

If you own a phone line, may I presume you're comfortable talking to a human assistant?

If you are, why may I not presume you're comfortable talking to a robot assistant?

If the experience of talking to the robot is noticeably degraded from the experience of talking to a human, that's a different question entirely---I'm assuming they're equivalent, maybe I should not. But if they are equivalent, what is the difference to the business owner?

(And FWIW, I think the drones would likely drive or walk in; look for Segway or Boston Dynamics to come up with something in the not too distant future ;) )