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Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

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Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#121

Post by nsgi »

Fradow wrote: post #45
dep_b wrote: post #2

I'm working for years as a developer building iOS applications. Apple got so strict the last months maybe last year it's just incredible. Lots of questions about monetization and background services, they really want you to have a solid business case for background location or just don't use it. As a consumer I'm happy they take those steps though. My privacy is worth money. Either somebody sells it and gives me a "f…

Do you know if they need a solid business case even if it is optional? For example, any idea if an optional "locate your device" feature would get shot down?

No idea if this is Apple's policy, but I would expect apps to follow UNIX philosophy. "Locate your device" should really be a separate app rather than a fringe feature of a fart app.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#122

Post by flukus »

dep_b wrote: post #2

I'm working for years as a developer building iOS applications. Apple got so strict the last months maybe last year it's just incredible. Lots of questions about monetization and background services, they really want you to have a solid business case for background location or just don't use it. As a consumer I'm happy they take those steps though. My privacy is worth money. Either somebody sells it and gives me a "f…

> Either somebody sells it and gives me a "free" OS or somebody sells me an OS and I don't "sell" my privacy

Linux desktops show a viable 3rd option, they are free, libre and protect your privacy (usually). The also provide the halfway point I want between the iOS model and the android model the provide a set of core well vetted apps from the store and allow me to install whatever else I want.

Librem or whoever makes a mobile equivalent the linux desktop can't come soon enough.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#123

Post by Rjevski »

vsl wrote: post #120
Rjevski wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is anonymous data is an ambiguous term, as enough randomness in the “anonymous” data can still uniquely identify that individual. Let’s take YouTube for example - I never had an account with them, yet they recommend me videos based on what I watched previously - fair enough. The creepy part is, on a totally different machine, from a different IP and country, watching just a few very specific videos (not p…

You’re jumping to unwarranted conclusions. A more reasonable explanation is simply that the unpopular videos you watched triggered recommendations similar to them, and based only on them - and that being what you typically watch no your other computer, the result was familiar to you.

I’ve thought about it but no, some of the recommended videos have zero link to the other ones, the only link is my “shadow profile” or whatever Google calls it. Tell me how a video about wasp pest control (had a wasp nest issue about a year ago, that was a fun experience) has anything to do with what I usually watch which is electronics (mainly EEVBlog), car repair, etc?

The “other computer” doesn’t actually exist, it was a test in an AWS VM that was only used once to prove/disprove my theory, so no way for them to have associated that computer or IP to me in advance.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#124

Post by ddalex »

notyourday wrote: post #21
Someone1234 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain what with China? Apple are legally required to follow the law of countries they do business in. In China the law requires that the government, not third party apps, gains access to additional information. Apple can limit third party app privacy violations while still following the law. The only stand Apple could take here is: - Stop selling in China - Have executives go to jail Just as if they violated US law…

So what you are saying that Apple's core beliefs are location-dependent. Personally, I think it is totally cool to have location-dependent core beliefs. I just think it is a total fan-boism not to acknowledge it.

But this is not about core-beliefs, but complying with the law.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#125

Post by osteele »

ksk wrote: post #75
osteele wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any good act by a corporation can be explained away as a business strategy. Just as any good act by an individual can be explained away as a means to garner status, or because the individual derives personal satisfaction from either the act or the effects of good behavior. Are you arguing that one must always impute manipulative motives to a corporation? (And should therefore not reward consequentially better behavio…

>Any good act by a corporation can be explained away as a business strategy. Just as any good act by an individual can be explained away as a means to garner status, or because the individual derives personal satisfaction from either the act or the effects of good behavior. Sure, I would agree that if the outcome is good, then the intention is not relevant. Apple might have a positive effect in China despite compromi…

> I'm saying recognize the hypocrisy instead of constructing weird arguments to justify it.

People with different priors on whether Apple's managers (or managers in general, or managers of large corporations in general) are likely to be hypocrites, will probably have opposite judgements about which explanation is a “weird argument”. So I don't think framing it in these terms will resolve any disagreement, unless there's some non-circular criterion (maybe you have one and I haven't seen it or am not understanding it) for judging an argument “weird”.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#126

Post by notjtrig »

jacquesm wrote: post #98
nimbix wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last time I checked it was still possible to buy a computer without Windows, as well as buy Windows that can be transferred between machines. Most people just don't bother with that.

Good luck with that. Even though it is possible it is much harder than just to ignore the problem and pay the Microsoft tax. And if you're going to buy a computer without windows why would you then buy Windows separately, that's much more expensive, and people that go out of their way to buy machines without Windows likely don't run Windows at all.

You can have a windows partition on a machine that is primarily Linux. First install Windows and then install Linux and there's no issue. Windows 10 today does not require a licence to operate it will not lock you out if you never activate.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#127

Post by ksk »

osteele wrote: post #125
ksk wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Any good act by a corporation can be explained away as a business strategy. Just as any good act by an individual can be explained away as a means to garner status, or because the individual derives personal satisfaction from either the act or the effects of good behavior. Sure, I would agree that if the outcome is good, then the intention is not relevant. Apple might have a positive effect in China despite compromi…

> I'm saying recognize the hypocrisy instead of constructing weird arguments to justify it. People with different priors on whether Apple's managers (or managers in general, or managers of large corporations in general) are likely to be hypocrites, will probably have opposite judgements about which explanation is a “weird argument”. So I don't think framing it in these terms will resolve any disagreement, unless ther…

I use the same criterion that people use when they use it in their day-to-day conversations. Lets not get into the definition of words. In any case its not my goal to resolve disagreement or to convince someone of something. I don't view conversations in such narrow ways. I'm only interested in having interesting conversations with reasonable folks.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#128

Post by sbhn »

Johnny555 wrote: post #79
sbhn wrote: post #46

What, is it legitimate companies selling your data? The fear media told me it was hackers.

You must have your head in the sand if you don't see the "fear media" also warning you about legit companies tracking you. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/11/technology/facebook-priva... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-07/even-priv... https://www.wsj.com/articles/who-has-more-of-your-personal-d... https://www.forbes.com/sites/kalevleetaru/2018/05/03/what-th...

None of those articles made pole position. Only articles with ‘Hackers’ in the subject line, that’s plural, make pole position when amplifying that people’s personal data is under attack.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#129

Post by jacksmith21006 »

gruez wrote: post #88
jacksmith21006 wrote: post #49

Just hope they let the user chose.

and what do you do when users get strongarmed (app refusing to run, dark patterns, etc.) into "accepting"?

Well then define how you make it clear to the user.

I worry a bit that we will go too far with things. Some want the benefits of having the data to make user experience better.

I am a perfect example of this.

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