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A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

kapwing.com

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Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Women in tech" events are a good example of how women exclude themselves. A typical event has the following attributes: - Men strongly discouraged or banned from participating. - Many of the attendees are "women in tech" but not "technical women", it's common to see women who describe themselves as co-founders, activists, HR staff and so on but relatively rare to find someone who actually spends all day banging out…

That's an interesting theory, but do you have any evidence that most of these events are more political in nature than actually talking about programming and technology? Your girlfriend's one or two anecdotes aren't really sufficient to make a generalization like that.

It's not a theory, it's a description of my observations.

I've presented my sources. Why not go find counter-examples? I bet you'll find it's harder than you expect. But OK, I'll make my case more strongly.

Here's a simple exercise. Pick a buzzword, say blockchain, search for "women in X" and let's look at some of the top results.

https://www.womenontheblock.io/ - check out the speakers. The first is a PhD student in cryptography, not a bad start. But then there's a co-founder, another co-founder, another founder (of "Investing in Women" i.e. an activist), a lawyer, an actual software engineer! Sort of - in 2011 she was an intern, she spent two years doing support tickets and is now a PM, but hey, that's at least something. Then we're back to a lobbyist, another founder (of a foundation), another lawyer, "Chief Discovery Officer" whatever that is, lawyer, digital content lead, shareholder (?), co-founder, business development executive, CFO, lawyer, CTO of the World Bank Group whose background is actually management consulting and "thought leadership", sales, "human capital officer" etc etc.

You get the picture. I just worked down the list and of all the people listed, only two appeared to do anything actually related to writing software: a cryptography student and someone who spent a couple of years as a support engineer but then quickly moved into product management.

Notice the pre-ponderance of women calling themselves founders and co-founders. That's very common. They are not what HN readers would recognise as a startup founder. Often they've founded entities that don't do anything, or are just organising more "women in X" meetups, or in the rare case where they're making software, have partnered with men / outsourcing shops to do so.

Here's another example: https://www.blockchainbeach.com/live-2018-women-in-blockchai...

Look at the agenda. It starts with a basic intro to blockchain, ok, slightly technical but nothing you can't find on YouTube. But then we're right into a discussion of "her time in the middle east and dispelling misconceptions about women in that region" i.e. about general women's issues, not tech. Then a panel whose first listed topic is "social impact" and one of the members is a musician (at least two of the women do appear to be at least somewhat technical). Then a marketing pitch for some random alt-coin whose relevance appears to be mostly that the marketing person for NEM is a woman. Then a keynote on "diversity in blockchain" - women's issues/feminism again. Then a panel on "women empowerment and inclusion". Useful observations like "42% of all the women in the world do not have a bank account" (men's problems of course don't count). And so on.

Really, if you have never investigated these events before - don't bother. They are mostly just non-technical feminists complaining about men, engaging in outrageous sexism and generally making the whole feminist cause look bad.

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#442
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is definitely something else going on in the background: https://twitter.com/ekp/status/991817194987114496 I frankly found this shocking and absolutely disgusting.

Be attractive. Don't be unattractive. Your job now depends on it. Unless you work 100% remote and don't use video chat.

"Incels" are a self-identified group that don't represent all sexually frustrated men, and "What are you going to do about it?" can have answers besides "root them out and fire them".

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you provide a citation on "the numbers hold up all the way to PhDs"? I found https://www.aps.org/programs/education/statistics/fraction-p... Vs https://www.aps.org/programs/education/statistics/womenmajor... Over 40% undergraduate degrees go to women, while less than 30% of doctorates.

https://imgur.com/a/nNHqwsP Science Magazine, "Expectations of brilliance underlie gender distributions across academic disciplines", vertical axis is PhDs, 2011 numbers. If nothing else at this point I think we can put a bullet in the "they just want to be math teachers" hypothesis.

That url works, but no image loads.

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#445
Having many social interactions can be a competitive disadvantage:

"Army scientists recently found that the best, high-performing cybersecurity teams have relatively few interactions with their team-members and team captain."

https://www.arl.army.mil/www/default.cfm?article=3209

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dont give up, learn the basics of human interactions and get interested in people, your life will change.

Speaking from personal experience, this advice isn't as bad as the votes and replies are making it look. I spent most of my time as a kid screwing around with computers and other whatsits, so I was really withdrawn and socially awkward after high school, and gave off the kind of accidental creeper aura that people here are talking about. (A mix of shyness, over-sharing, nonexistent small talk, and bad body language.)…

I dont mind HN mob downvotes, I hope it helped OP

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#448
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a talented, and wonderful, female dev on my team. One thing though:. She has described to me some of the male coders as being "creepers". When I asked for specifics, she couldn't provide them. She simply stated it was a "feeling". The one commonality I found with the creepers is that they are pretty clearly below average in looks. The question is whether this is a correlation or a casual factor. But definitely…

One way to possibly look at this is that she opened up to you because she felt you might understand, to her you responded sceptically and out of professional self-interest she downplayed the whole thing. That doesn’t mean those guys are necessarily creepers but that you’ve definitely lost her trust.

No, I haven't lost her trust, nor was my response skeptical. In fact, she recognized my purpose was not to doubt her but to correct any behaviors the men had that was making her and other females uncomfortable.

But thanks for assuming.

Re: A female engineer's opinion on why there are fewer women in tech

#450
post #353
post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And passive empathy without action is pointless. How much data needs to be gathered before an action becomes clear? Should we all not take any action until then?

I haven't seen any actions recommended. Just people nitpicking everything they think is wrong with a woman's opinion.

Because the actions that would be obvious outcomes of the identified problems are pointless to suggest, they will never happen.

For example, a key issue identified in this discussion is the perceived career risk of being friends with women at work. Stories have been shared about harmless comments that came back to bite innocent men years later, or being described as creepy, and of course, we've all seen the string of high profile men losing their jobs based on mere tweets.

An obvious action that could address this is for women to stop collectively insisting that they never lie and that they should be able to shoot down the career of any man based on nothing more than a complaint to HR. But there is no sign this will happen, why would people give up such power.

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