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Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

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Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#101
post #96
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your logic is bonkers. Not every principle or virtue is a hill that every inch is worth dying over. The US and EU (and pretty much every other country) also have many laws and regulations that are not privacy friendly. You claim this means they should close up shop (or only sell to seasteaders) if they are a true privacyman? It's a recycled version of the 'Al Gore has a big house' joke, guess he's doesn't really care…

If people simply admitted that Apple (like many others) will compromise on their privacy principles in exchange for commercial gain - we would never have been having a conversation on this topic. People want to hold Apple to a higher standard.. maybe thats also part of the problem.

Is it really that simple? Put yourself in the execs' shoes for a few minutes. You can obey the laws of China and do business in China... or you can take a stand on principle and leave the market, giving up not only the revenue, but the small amount of positive influence you might have on their society as a whole.

How is that necessarily any better for humanity than simply obeying the local laws, going along to get along, while making it clear to your Chinese customers that their counterparts in more enlightened countries enjoy more privacy, more features, and an overall better experience?

I spoke with some people at a certain well-known company working on satellite Internet service a while back, and I asked them the same question. "What are you going to do when the Chinese try to shut you down for providing uncensored Internet service?" It was hard to argue with their response. They feel it is possible to make money and be a positive influence in various closed totalitarian societies including China. I think that's basically Apple's take on it as well.

Overt disobedience to the regime is rarely a good option for companies operating at global scale. It will get your employees declared criminals in large areas of the planet, and it can literally get your customers killed.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#102
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people simply admitted that Apple (like many others) will compromise on their privacy principles in exchange for commercial gain - we would never have been having a conversation on this topic. People want to hold Apple to a higher standard.. maybe thats also part of the problem.

Is it really that simple? Put yourself in the execs' shoes for a few minutes. You can obey the laws of China and do business in China... or you can take a stand on principle and leave the market, giving up not only the revenue, but the small amount of positive influence you might have on their society as a whole. How is that necessarily any better for humanity than simply obeying the local laws, going along to get al…

Well, I'm saying that we should probably ignore Apple when they say[1] stuff like "At Apple, we believe privacy is a fundamental human right." My cynical reading would be "At Apple, we're going to compromise on what we believe to be a fundamental human right, to make a few bucks, and if in the process we happen to have a positive impact on some dictatorial regimes, that would be cool too".

>Overt disobedience to the regime is rarely a good option for companies operating at global scale.

To be sure, it is never a good option. People have tried to sue the Chinese government, unsuccessfully so far. Nobody is denying that the chinese government has a horrible human rights record too.

>It will get your employees declared criminals in large areas of the planet, and it can literally get your customers killed.

Are we still talking about Apple in China? I don't know which customer was killed, or which employee was declared a criminal..

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[1] https://www.apple.com/privacy/

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#103
post #2

I'm working for years as a developer building iOS applications. Apple got so strict the last months maybe last year it's just incredible. Lots of questions about monetization and background services, they really want you to have a solid business case for background location or just don't use it. As a consumer I'm happy they take those steps though. My privacy is worth money. Either somebody sells it and gives me a "f…

well in addition to privacy concerns, location tracking is a huge drain on the battery. And a good battery life is one of their selling points so I wouldn’t be surprised if during part of the review process some reviewers might hold the opinion that there better be a good reason why your app is using so much juice in the background.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#104
post #100
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a poor argument. "Selling" a product is not a principle or a virtue that one is required to comply with. Protecting the privacy of users is. Being non-discriminatory is. What if they had to do business in a country that forbids gay people from working? Using your logic - "Oh well they had to fire all their gay employees to just follow the law". Its hypocritical of Apple to suggest they truly care about privac…

And what, US law just magically happens to be properly balanced, unlike the legal systems elsewhere? Following your logic, every single company in the US is either ethically aligned with US law or horrible, awful hypocrites. Apparently there are no other possibilities.

If every single company said stuff like "At Apple, we believe privacy is a fundamental human right." then yes.

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https://www.apple.com/privacy/

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#105
post #2

I'm working for years as a developer building iOS applications. Apple got so strict the last months maybe last year it's just incredible. Lots of questions about monetization and background services, they really want you to have a solid business case for background location or just don't use it. As a consumer I'm happy they take those steps though. My privacy is worth money. Either somebody sells it and gives me a "f…

I was on the phone with Apple once, arguing about why the iOS app I put together at work shouldn't be rejected for running location services all the time. The point the representative at Apple made was that something like that needs to be primarily for the user's benefit, as opposed to it being primarily for the benefit of the people behind the app. I was able to demonstrate that to them, and the app was approved.

Apple is about apps being for the benefit of the user.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#106
Would be nice if there was a more granular option for access to photos which allowed "image only" with no metadata... I assume most people don't realize when they grant photo library access to a cheap filter app that the app can grab the datetime and GPS location for all photos as well, which is a lot of data if they have a phone full with a ton of photos.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#107
post #100
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a poor argument. "Selling" a product is not a principle or a virtue that one is required to comply with. Protecting the privacy of users is. Being non-discriminatory is. What if they had to do business in a country that forbids gay people from working? Using your logic - "Oh well they had to fire all their gay employees to just follow the law". Its hypocritical of Apple to suggest they truly care about privac…

And what, US law just magically happens to be properly balanced, unlike the legal systems elsewhere? Following your logic, every single company in the US is either ethically aligned with US law or horrible, awful hypocrites. Apparently there are no other possibilities.

If we are comparing it to Chinese law, then most definitely.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#108
post #2

I'm working for years as a developer building iOS applications. Apple got so strict the last months maybe last year it's just incredible. Lots of questions about monetization and background services, they really want you to have a solid business case for background location or just don't use it. As a consumer I'm happy they take those steps though. My privacy is worth money. Either somebody sells it and gives me a "f…

they really want you to have a solid business case for background location or just don't use it. I did notice that it was being used a lot, and it seemed like I had much worse battery life when using certain apps.

You can specify you want different precision in location. If you just want rough location, you'll get notified if you change location based on WiFi or cell tower switch. This uses next to no extra battery power and is sufficient for many background applications.

If you want exact location, then you'll be running the GPS, which indeed uses more battery. But even so, it's not that bad. I record detailed GPS for my runs quite often with a fitness app, and it only uses 5-7% battery an hour. (Key is to make sure it's not also hitting a data connection to download maps, and that the screen is off.)

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#109
post #2

I'm working for years as a developer building iOS applications. Apple got so strict the last months maybe last year it's just incredible. Lots of questions about monetization and background services, they really want you to have a solid business case for background location or just don't use it. As a consumer I'm happy they take those steps though. My privacy is worth money. Either somebody sells it and gives me a "f…

I was on the phone with Apple once, arguing about why the iOS app I put together at work shouldn't be rejected for running location services all the time. The point the representative at Apple made was that something like that needs to be primarily for the user's benefit, as opposed to it being primarily for the benefit of the people behind the app. I was able to demonstrate that to them, and the app was approved. Ap…

Wow I might just have to turn in my Android phone. I've been using Android since the G1 flagship phone. I value privacy the older I get.

Re: Apple cracking down on applications that send location data to third-parties

#110
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last time I checked it was still possible to buy a computer without Windows, as well as buy Windows that can be transferred between machines. Most people just don't bother with that.

Good luck with that. Even though it is possible it is much harder than just to ignore the problem and pay the Microsoft tax. And if you're going to buy a computer without windows why would you then buy Windows separately, that's much more expensive, and people that go out of their way to buy machines without Windows likely don't run Windows at all.

Building a gaming PC is one case where you buy the Windows OS separately from the PC (especially if you're building it part by part)
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